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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    4
    I agree with you zw17. I am a 17 year union firefighter in Oklahoma and a Licensed HVAC contractor. I have negotiated 15 years with the city. When they don't want to pay $$$ they offer time off and other "free" benefits. Now new admin asks why we get so much vacation. The general public's knowledge of unions comes from the tea party. And the tea baggers are wrong.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Plainfield ,NJ
    Posts
    61
    I like to know the best ways to cut corners in pricing out a job or advertising a furnace check up without losing quality?When facing a another company with the same training and experience. Would it be the designed speedy inside outside check list that is detailed yet easy to fill out or maybe digital check list/invoice. Without check list there comes a higher possibility of failing to check a component. Whats good ways to cut time on a job.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2,432
    Quote Originally Posted by metalman1 View Post
    I agree with you zw17. I am a 17 year union firefighter in Oklahoma and a Licensed HVAC contractor. I have negotiated 15 years with the city. When they don't want to pay $$$ they offer time off and other "free" benefits. Now new admin asks why we get so much vacation. The general public's knowledge of unions comes from the tea party. And the tea baggers are wrong.
    So quit your firefighter job. When enough of yoos guys quit, they will know theyre not paying enough. Has anyone quit lately?

  4. #30
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,475
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Replace your word "Unions" and you've described the state of the USA both politically and economicly.
    You've also discribed an economic struggle that for the most part in old history. I don't know about PS unions but trade unions rarely fit your discription today.
    Can I sign you up now?
    not a chance, You couldn't pay me enough to be controlled by some half wit dumbass taking bribes and screwing all the members. I was in a Union for over two years and all I saw was corruption and gross stupidity.

    These jerkweeds actually voted themselves out of business. Me and another guy tried to explain how business works and why they will put themselves out of business if they go on strike. My tires where slashed, my buddies windshield was busted, they went on strike and a week later the owner closed the doors and walked away.....

    freaking idiots, unions have out lived there usefulness
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,713
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    not a chance, You couldn't pay me enough to be controlled by some half wit dumbass taking bribes and screwing all the members. I was in a Union for over two years and all I saw was corruption and gross stupidity.

    These jerkweeds actually voted themselves out of business. Me and another guy tried to explain how business works and why they will put themselves out of business if they go on strike. My tires where slashed, my buddies windshield was busted, they went on strike and a week later the owner closed the doors and walked away.....

    freaking idiots, unions have out lived there usefulness
    It's unfortunate you had a bad experience. There have been those that have been overzealous in protecting their turf. I just experienced overzealous 2nd ammendment advocates at our village counsul meeting. I think some of them were also in a tire slashing mood. The counsul thought they might want to limit open carry in village gov buildings.
    As to unions outliving their usefullness sounds like worker representation also outliving it's usefullness.
    I'd agree many tactics beginning when organized crime moved into many unions didn't represent unions best interests but things change. I've seen huge changes over a lot of years espicially contractor/union parternerships.
    I doubt without a bottle of single malt I'd change your mind anyway.
    "What Fools these mortals be"....Puck

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    529
    The problem I see with unions is the bickering between. Also throwing up a stink over a nonunion company. We recently had a job installing coolers and freezers with a large chain store. Everything is going great and then they bring in a nonunion plumber for some little BS job and one of our new construction fitters throws a fit. Guess what we did not get the next few stores over that. Guys have to remember... Showing the consumer through quality workmanship is how we keep customers coming back. After all this is America and choosing union or nonunion is the customers decision. Arguing and boycotting are just about useless in today's world.
    The service side of our company works together well unlike our new construction side. If a service guy finds a bad disconnect on a package unit we change it. Our electricians don't want us to bother them with something that small. Now if we get into wire pulling or something more heck yea we call them. Try that on our new construction side and it's world war 3. I just don't see things working well unless we work together better.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
    Posts
    1,221
    No denying the good unions have done in the past. However in my opinion the company store of the past has been replaced with the union it's self. You have to pay to work. You are expected to tow the democrat line or be shouted down for disagreeing. If the union backs a candidate you disagree with too bad. Shut up and pay or find another job. Not vested yet? Too bad get out and they keep what you have paid into retirement It's all upside down and backwards from what it was started as and was intended to be. As long as they spend most of their money, time, and effort backing a political party instead of simply standing between employer and employee they will continue to fade into obscurity. If any of you doubt what I have said go to your next union meeting stand up and proclaim that you cannot support a candidate who supports partial birth abortion so you are voting republican.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,088
    Quote Originally Posted by metalman1 View Post
    I agree with you zw17. I am a 17 year union firefighter in Oklahoma and a Licensed HVAC contractor. I have negotiated 15 years with the city. When they don't want to pay $$$ they offer time off and other "free" benefits. Now new admin asks why we get so much vacation. The general public's knowledge of unions comes from the tea party. And the tea baggers are wrong.
    Ha, I am a union HVAC tech and a volunteer firefighter...

    Small world.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,475
    The general public's knowledge of unions comes from the tea party. And the tea baggers are wrong.
    thats crap and you know it, Unions are there own worse enemy and with statements like this, it doesn't help your cause.

    I was in a union, (it sucked) I have worked with union people (they sucked, especially masons, pipe fitters on the other hand do outstanding work) I don't care for the attitude or the complaining, constant, non-stop complaining.....sheesh do the damn job and STFU
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,088
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    thats crap and you know it
    I don't know about that...

    I would say 99% of the people I talk to about unions have zero idea of how they work, why/how they still exist, or what role they play in today's economy.

    Many people cite what they have heard in the news about unions, very very very few know the inner workings of a union.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,713
    I think it's interesting that Americans will complain about our government but still embrace it. Governments are people, not some imaginary entity. Unions are also people. Americans are very lucky our laws allow us to organize and bargain. Many things have been gained like the 40 hour work week, minimum wages, safety and others. There is a lot of money being spent to discredit Unions but I know the overall good exceeds all the bad press. The Unions set the bar all workers benefit from.
    So like our government I'm willing to work past any wrongs that might happen when humans are involved because I'm better off with worker representation than being thrown to the wolves.
    Like most things, want a better Union? Get involved.
    "What Fools these mortals be"....Puck

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    many forget that the american economy itself is based upon continual growth at a mid single digit rate. ALL of the current ptograms use financial modeling based upon this principle. In discussing pension plans particularly, many of the posters are underinformed. you see, ERISA guidelines dictate funding levels of pension plans essentially limiting the "unfunded liability". these federal laws were put in place to protect workers. so, if you contribute monies for retirement, once vested, a certain amount must be there, or the plan goes into red status. there is also proviso for benefit levels to be INCREASED when the plan is too solvent. in other words, too much money in the bank. both aspects are good, however treatment of them was generally bad.

    here is why: many, many plans at one time or another went to both extremes. when they were doing too well, the politicians OR ceo's made less contribution than was required. they then used the finances to either leverage more public work in municipalities, or to write bigger bonus checks to ceo's and their pals in private sector. this is what killed a lot of the plans. before you debate it, do the work, its out there. so, the plans in good times didnt get full contributions. then when bad times hit, the safety net is smaller, sending the plans into red status, which occurred to many plans nationwide.

    the choice then becomes, do we raise contributions, or lower benefits levels??? many union plans choose to raise contributions, then find out that when the economy gets healthy again, they MUST raise benefits. Its a vicious cycle, caused by cheats who ABUSED the plans under the guise of following ERISA guidelines.

    the easy analogy is that if you get more than x amount in your household bank account, the government forces you to spend more money each month, then when times get tight, you have to take money out of the bank to pay those extra bills. I dont care if you are union or not, thats how it works. The same is true of social security. the money WE PAY into social security has been raided for years for the same reasons.

    I could write for days on this topic, but wont.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    jax fl
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Wait???? People should work instead of taking handouts??? Can that be true???
    Not in this Country. You sadly are mistaking sir.
    Sir Ace says, Don't hate the breed, just the breeder!

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