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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,338
    Quote Originally Posted by kapvixa View Post
    OK, making sure I am not misunderstanding something here - the facts my ducts are in the ceiling (lowered) and not in the attic itself is just as bad as being in the attic? Aside from the pipes/wires to the existing air handler - there is nothing else up in the attic. Everything is below the drywall under the studs. I should still expect a huge hit on efficiency when it is installed from what's its rated nonetheless?
    No, that is not what I was saying at all. Please read the following carefully. Ducts and HVAC equipment that are not in the attic perform much better than ducts that are in the attic. What this equates to is that a 13 SEER matched system can perform better with ducts inside the condo than a 14 SEER with ducts in a hot attic.

    The different installers are giving the run around telling me what works and what doesn't without providing certificates. I've now had 4 different people tell me something's approved that the certificate doesn't exist for or First Company says doesn't work. It's kinda frustrating actually - I would think they would want to sell me an approved system if they are listed as authorized resellers of the different manufactures. Goodman manufactoring's rep said they couldnt tell me anything about workable combinations, I would have to speak to their authorized resllers and provided me three in the area - one of which is the one claiming false ratings and matches we already know cant work! So weird.

    I'm hesitant to have someone come in an install something if they can't be honest up front. I've not haggled any of the quotes cost wise and don't really intend to. I never thought replacing the AC with an approved combination would be so frustrating.
    Earlier in the thread above, you said this:

    First Company confirmed it will not work. The max they can get is SEER 13 with their units to a different outdoor unit.
    This is what made me emphasis 13 SEER being a viable option for you since your ducts are inside the condo vs. in the attic. If First Company has documentation that indicates which outdoor unit(s), at 13 SEER, will work with their fan coil, get a copy of that and show it to your bidding contractors. I know you want 14 SEER; what I'm saying is that with your ducts and fan coil inside the house, you will likely get better performance at 13 SEER than an equivalent sized 14 SEER system with ducts and air handler in the attic. Also keep in mind you are jumping from 8 SEER to 13, which is a big leap. Your old condenser probably had a reciprocating compressor and condenser coil surface area barely big enough to manage its load. The 13 SEER equipment use scroll compressors and have much larger condenser coils to reject heat and keep operating pressures in the outdoor section reduced (which translates to higher efficiency).
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9
    Ah! Thank you for clarifying the confusion. I admit to misreading what you wrote.

    Now let me explain the whole 14 SEER business, and I can sum it up in 1 word, "DAD." He's not letting me pull the trigger on any of the 13 options, he's demanding 14 and Trane on both

    The SEER 13 Trane option was: Outer 4TTB3030E1 with inner 4FWFA031A furrdown replacement. It took 3 different Trane authorized resellers before one said they could it (the rest said no such inner unit).

    We received an email from a Trane rep who said we should ask about the previously mentioned 4TTB4030E1 & 4FWFA036A furrdown replacement combo instead as he said it was a SEER 14 and that the resellers should be able to just place these in the current units' place. There was no indication I would have to put any new ducts in or that anything would end up in my attic at all. So my dad has gone nuts trying to find that but we are hitting the same wall of people claiming the unit doesn't exist.

    I am in agreement that from 8 to 13 is great. I am not nuts about necessarily tracking down the 14 combo, but as its not an emergency, and I didn't see any downsides, I was letting him have at it. I was trying to ensure there wasn't a huge downside regarding it that I could use to convince my dad to just use the Trane SEER 13 combo. Oh and we did obtain certificates on the above two combinations.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,338
    Oh, so this is your father's condo instead of yours, meaning it's his money instead of yours. I get it.

    Brand loyalty may be working against him, here. Aside from the spine fin coils and the old Climatuff reciprocating compressors (which aren't used much anymore, superceded by scroll compressors), there's nothing really special about Trane units to distinguish them from other major brands like Carrier or Lennox. Even re: the spine fin coils, they collect dirt like crazy and should be cleaned like clockwork yearly...more often if cottonwood trees are nearby. But the same holds true for any coil.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    9
    lol. It's my condo, well on paper anyways - its now vacant, and I am giving it to my parents for their retirement and will still be making the payments. As far as who is paying for the AC - not sure. I was planning on paying for it now. But the bigger issue is he's a bit stubborn so doing stuff above his head is usually not a wise idea. I'm going to point out what you said there regarding the Brand Loyalty, maybe it will get him moving!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,168
    It is hard to find a good contractor You have an uncommon setup with that air handler which is making it harder to find a matched system. I don't think First Co. helps any since they don't participate in AHRI ratings. That's the bible on what's matched although with a 3rd party indoor unit, it is computer simulated not actually tested.

    Goodman rates their AH with the GSX13 but not the SSX14. I'm guessing the little coil just won't get the increase in SEER.

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