Anyone know anything about the quality of Buderus oil boilers? I received a quote to replace my 22 year old boiler with a G115-21 boiler for about $x, as well as options for a ST150 indirect water heater and $x for a matching Logamatic outdoor reset control. Other than the boiler, not sure what the other stuff will do for me. I don't need a water heater since I have a gas water heater that works fine.
What's the top oil boiler brand(s) and is $x about the going rate for replacing an old oil boiler with a new equivalent one? TIA!
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[Edited by jrbenny on 09-08-2006 at 06:58 AM]
You stated that you have a gas hot water heater, why on earth would you get an oil boiler, you will not come even close in the area of efficiency and the cost of maint. To answer your question any how buderus, makes some really nice stuff, crown ,weil mclain, etc they really are getting better but, if you can go gas it will save you in the long run
I called in a HVAC company to quote me on a new oil boiler and mentioned nothing about heating my water. He added a indirect water heater for some reason, as well as the outdoor reset control, which I have no idea of what it does. I have a Weil Mclain and don't like it, although it is 22 years old. So Buderus is top quallity, or what?
We do a have a company coming by tomorrow to give us a quote on converting from oil to gas heat. He's actually from the company that replaced out original "summer-winter hookup" water heating with the gas water heater.
The few people I spoke to about converting from oil to gas say it will never pay off for the cost of the conversion (I think they all had an interest in selling oil boilers, though). Why do you say gas is cheaper in the long run. It's certainly more convenient and cleaner in terms of odor, etc. And I can get rid of the oil tank in my basement, too!
Buderus witha riello burner can be up to 86% effiecient. You should get direct vent or linr your chimney to prevent flue gas condensation. Buderus also makes a wall hung gas boiler like a tankless water heater. If you have gas I would go to that or a Munchkin,or look at NTI etc. They modulate based on outdoor reset principles.
Do it right the 1st. time!
Buderus is our top of the line. It is bar none the best oil fired boiler. Make sure it comes with a Riello burner.
The outdoor reset control is a bonus. It will keep the boiler water at a lower temp if its warm outside and memory of previous useage during the day when noone is home summer or winter. But will adjust to whatever is required at the moment.
If you have a typical (atmospheric) gas water heater that vents into the chimney, the indirect will be much more efficient than the existing water heater. And you will never run out of hot water. Typically a 40 gallon tank at 60 deg. F heats to 120 in about 10 minutes.
Ditto on the liner. Due to the high efficincy of the boiler.
The price you got would be a bargain where I live.
For that price I hope they do a good job. Replacing all zone valves or circulators, check valves, expansion tank, air elimination devices, purge station, etc..
These forums are terrific. The info you guys are providing is exceptional!
I made 2 notes: to check if the boiler will have a Riello burner, and that I need my chimney lined for best efficiency (which was not even suggested by this person quoting me). Also, to purchase the optional outdoor reset control for $X. Even though the optional water heater is more efficient, I think I'm going to save the $X and stay with my current gas atmospheric water heater. It works and it's fairly new.
Here's what the quote says:
We will remove the old boiler and zone valves from the premises
We will supply and install a Buderus model G115-21 oil-fired boiler
We will supply and install circulators to support two zones
We will supply and install a multizone circulator control
We will supply and install a new expansion tank
We will supply and install an automatic water feed w/backflow prevention
We will supply and install a Supervent air separator
We will supply and install a low water cutoff
We will supply and install new vent connector pipe
We will connect to existing radiation, oil line, and electric
We will start and test for proper operation
It all sounds thorough to me (other than the notes I made from your comments). Anything else you'all see?
[Edited by jrbenny on 09-08-2006 at 06:56 AM]
We always run a new oil line from the tank because the old one is usually old and corroded.
We give the homeowner a recommended chimney guys phone number for the liner. Our quote does not include a liner and your installer should be aware of the issue with this high efficiency boiler.
If the chimney has a clay liner its better than no liner but it may eventually fall apart due to condensation if you don't get a stainless steel liner. There are many Buderus boilers out there with just a clay liner. Some Buderus boilers have higher stack temps than others(around 400 deg F). If the stack temp stays around 250 deg F, then you will probably have a problem with a clay liner.
Some guys will tell you scrap the oil there could be a spill. Others will tell you scrap the gas there could be an explosion. I'll tell you any fuel has a certain element of danger to it, after all we purchase it to burn it. I'm biased toward oil as that is what I do. Oil gives you choices where you can decide who gets your money. If one company makes you mad there are many others to go to. Gas comes from the utility, who do they compete with? You have a no heat call with oil and if the oil company services it they will be out quick, they don't want a lost customer. Gas utilities will get there when they get there. So now it is in your best interest to have an account with a good service company. Oil is sold by the gallon, gas by the therm. There is more heat (BTU's) in a gallon of oil than there is a therm of natural gas. The price you pay per gallon for oil is it. The price you pay for a therm of gas also has other charges on the bill. It often looks like a therm is cheaper but you have to factor in the other charges. As oil goes up so doesn't gas. If properly tuned oil isn't dirty or smelly. If improperly tuned gas can spew out excessive carbon monoxide. So can oil but oil will also smoke giving you extra warning. Today's oil edquipment is designed to be clean and efficient, it isn't fair to compare equipment of the past to today's gas equipment. Lastly oil is recommended to be serviced annually. Gas people will tell you gas doesn't need it but that isn't so. Gas needs to be checked to be sure the combustion readings haven't changed for the worst, safeties need to be checked, and it's just good sense overall to have a professional set of eyes looking over the unit.
I hope I have given you points to ponder. I'm in Mass so what I have said is based on how things work around here. To answer the original question, we sell Buderus and they run best in a chimney as opposed to direct vent. The Logomatic Control changes the system from a Buick to a Caddy, it does save you money. Have the piping done so the water tank can easily be added when the gas heater leaks. Indirect tanks aren't as prone to leaking as direct fired tanks (gas or oil).
[Edited by Leo on 09-08-2006 at 09:20 PM]
Both oil LP Man and Leo, excellent feedback. Oil LP Man, great info. I was told by a guy quoting me on both gas and oil boilers that a stainless steel liner for my chimney if I stay with oil could cost around $2200, while a new (non-stainless) liner for gas about $600. Hmm. So a trade-off -- it all adds up to being priced about the same whether I stay oil or switch to gas.
Leo, eloquently put on your assessments. You summed up what I have heard from my discussions with pros and friends. Man, it's never easy to make these decisions.
I'll tell you this, my wife is pretty adament about switching to gas. It's an emotional thing. This darn 22-year-old Weil Mclain boiler really soured her on oil. This thing came close to ruining our house with smoke damage, has had significant operation and maintenance issues for the last few years and continues to be smelly, loud and dirty. I grew up with gas in my parent's house, my wife and I had gas in our first house and never had an issue with it that I can remember, and gas is clearly so much cleaner.
As much as I think I'm generally hearing that staying with oil is a good choice given today's systems and pricing, and that gas is fine, too, there's no obvious victor. But a woman's demands can truly hold a lot of weight in the decisions a man will make in these situations. I'll let you know what I end up doing (be gentle regardless of my decision).
Check out the minchkin gas boiler , it offers high efficiency, pvc vent, etc. Aluminum heat exchanger, you can get it with all the controlss you want, I have seen some good deals on the net .this will give you what you want, not that I am against oil,at all. But I have seen alot of these boilers go into multi million dollar homes, and these guys dont skimp on anything.It will also solve the chimney problem.Again If you stay with oil that is your decision, to make I have worked on both and the buderus is really nice equipment/if you go that way. Isnt it great to have so many options and people to help you out
I think you should have the tank checked to make sure it's in good shape. I would lean towards a gas modulating condensing boiler with an indirect, Instead of using the chimney for venting the water heater, just run intake and exhaust PVC up the stack. You'll get 90% efficency, a boiler that runs all year and not getting a liner will probbaly pay for the indirect.
Here's what I was planning to do. Go with a Buderus gas boiler, possibly line the Chimney for another $600, possibly purchase the outdoor reset control for another $1000, and keep the gas-fired hot water heater as-is.
Not sure what an "indirect" is exactly being a novice.
Do I have to worry about my house blowing up if I switch to gas? I have a friend putting that fear into me about switching to gas.
if you are going to switch to gas and want to use Buderus i would recommend a GB142 wall hung high efficiency boiler with an indirect water heater and reset control for maximum efficiency. Be sure the contractor sizes the circulator for the indirect correctly. I would have them remove the atmospheric water heater and get rid of an additonal gas appliance. As far as blowing up your house - you did not blow up in your previous home or your parents - what makes you think you will this time.
The gas boiler will need annual maintenance, however you don't need to worry about clogged nozzles, clogged oil fiters, sludge in your oil tank or and oil company somehow overfilling the tank (doesn't happen often but when it does watch out). Also, you'll never run out of natural gas in the middle of the night.