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  1. #1

    installers overcharging txv systems

    Here's what I have been finding. I keep getting sent back on our installers new installs. When I get there I keep finding overcharged units. Its usually 90 inside and 90-100 outside when they are setting these units. They say they are charging them to 10 degrees subcooling. When I go back the indoor temp is usually 70-80 depending on the person. The outdoor temp is still 90-100. My subcooling is extremely high around 40-50 degrees. I always remove refrigerant to reach 10 degrees subcooling. What is going on here and how can I help them stop overcharging these units?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    139
    I usually charge the subcool to a lower amount, but I think the best way is to get the wet bulb and go from there.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    172
    Are they adding refrigerant to the system on new installs? Most units come precharged for 15' of line set, I usually do not have to add any refrigerant to my new installs, one this week had a good 35' of line set, R410a, txv metering device and there was a great plenty of refrigerant in the system. Can they start up the a/c and let it run for an hour or so while they pick up their stuff from the job or finish up something inside or what ever so the unit can run for a bit before they go and add any refrigerant??

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    147
    Pull the jugs of referigerant off of their trucks. Untill you can show them the proper way to charge a new system.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that now I can do almost anything with nothing at all.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,710
    charging every unit to the same does not make it correct, unless that is what every unit calls for with conditions!!
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    646
    First make sure they aren't winging the charging. Worked with a guy that told me that once you are as "experienced as me, you can charge by feel" Make sure they are not doing that.

    make sure the unit has been running for a while, and they add refrigerant slowly then wait. There is usually quite a bit of lag for them to "catch up" add some refrigerant and wait 5-10 minutes for the unit to stabilize at the new subcooling.

    read manufacturer data on charging that should be included in the service manual with the unit. I know, I know, everyone thinks they know more than the engineers that built the thing, but there is some useful info in there. They will probably have parameters printed based on outdoor temp, indoor temp, etc. If your parameters are outside of theirs, all you can really do is wait to pull down temp, guess, or come back after lunch to top off. Otherwise they will probably tell you how much to add per x number of increased line set as has already been stated.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,100
    When the indoor temp is 90 and your at 100 outside, the TXV will be wide open. And you won't have 10°SC on most systems. Too much load.

    Have them measure the line set, and then add as per the manufacturers instructions.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,042
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    When the indoor temp is 90 and your at 100 outside, the TXV will be wide open. And you won't have 10°SC on most systems. Too much load.

    Have them measure the line set, and then add as per the manufacturers instructions.
    and if it's an overcharged (from the factory) goodman?
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    68,100
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    and if it's an overcharged (from the factory) goodman?

    No different then an over charged one from carrier.
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  10. #10
    I like to check charge when conditions are less drastic.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    South
    Posts
    580
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Have them measure the line set, and then add as per the manufacturers instructions.
    Hey, I'm gonna be rich. I'm going to invent a scaled suction line snake so they can work that through the line and get a solid number. Ever accurately measure a lineset in a 12 story condo? (for example).

    Point is no one at these places was there when they were built, and no one really knows how to even get an approximate length. In my case I just go behind the installers and readjust the charge, and thats the most accurate it's going to get. We haven't had many problems with this lately though.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,914
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    When the indoor temp is 90 and your at 100 outside, the TXV will be wide open. And you won't have 10°SC on most systems. Too much load.

    Have them measure the line set, and then add as per the manufacturers instructions.

    This is what I do from this same issue. Charge by weight and come back when the indoor temp is normal and then charge it by performance.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,100
    Quote Originally Posted by truck12 View Post
    Hey, I'm gonna be rich. I'm going to invent a scaled suction line snake so they can work that through the line and get a solid number. Ever accurately measure a lineset in a 12 story condo? (for example).

    Point is no one at these places was there when they were built, and no one really knows how to even get an approximate length. In my case I just go behind the installers and readjust the charge, and thats the most accurate it's going to get. We haven't had many problems with this lately though.
    He said new installs. Maybe he meant swap out.
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