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  1. #183
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Thanks Dan! I think you're getting the picture. I fell in love with this house because it's on a lake and pretty much "let's the outside in", almost like living in a grass hut, but with all the modern conveniences.
    What a JOY filled enLIGHTening experience !
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  2. #184
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,033
    Read thread "trane unit installed in 2010" this is the problem we don't want you to end up with

  3. #185
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    Read thread "trane unit installed in 2010" this is the problem we don't want you to end up with
    Thanks JT. The way you express your concerns makes it easy for me to hear your advice, and I do appreciate it, believe me!

    I just read that thread. Also watched all the Comfort Institute videos. They're very easy for lay people like me to follow, and don't use gibberish to talk down to us like some folks in this forum. I am even more committed to insuring Manual J is done properly after I commit to my contractor of choice, and am willing to accept that the 3-ton XL20i may be the proper size.

    Thanks again!

  4. #186
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,287
    From an energy rating perspective,
    My guesstimate of your FPL bill is in the range of ...
    ( based on Your descriptions in comparison to
    what I spend on my residence_)
    January _70
    February _ 70
    March_ 80
    April __ 90
    May __ 110
    June __ 140
    July ___ 170
    August _ 180
    September 160
    October _ 140
    November_ 100
    December _ 80

    May - October = $900
    of which ~ $500 or 5000 kW is for cooling which equates to about 1,500 hours run-time.
    I suspect it may be as much as $40 per month more for June - September because set-point of 75'F is rather low.

    YOUR FPL data is easily retrieved from www.fpl.com
    http://www.fpl.com/residential/index.shtml

    How much my $/month is on the low side depends on the amount of glass and orientation SW/ SE and any overhangs which are likely mimimal for Florida Space Coast.
    + the refrigerant charge may have been significantly affecting the performance recently.

    You should definitely appreciate your L O W Relative Humidity and associated comfort level.


    KiloWatts used = ~ 10 X $ / month
    Last edited by dan sw fl; 08-22-2012 at 04:13 AM.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  5. #187
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,287
    If you are spending as much as $800 for the FL long cooling season, you may see an annual $300+ savings optimistically with a high end 2-stage
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  6. #188
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    If you are spending as much as $800 for the FL long cooling season, you may see an annual $300+ savings optimistically with a high end 2-stage
    Dan, I hope I can save a LOT more than $300 annually!

    FYI, the 75 degree setpoint on my t-stat is misleading. Using a cheap electronic thermometer from Lowes i've discovered that the temp at the t-stat is actually 77 degrees when it's set to 75. I've adjusted the t-stat upwards each year since I moved in in Dec 2009, in an attempt to save money. The current setting is about as high as I can go and still remain "fairly" comfortable. You can see the results in the FPL data below. T-stat was set at 72 (74 actual temp) in 2010. I upped it to 74 (76 actual) in 2011. Finally upped it to 75 (77 actual).

    Note the *** for the August amount. This is when the compressor fell over and leaked all my freon, but kept running until it was fixed and the leaking accumulator was fixed.

    I did the FPL online energy survey a couple of weeks ago, and it told me that my heating and cooling costs are 75% of my bill!

    Month KWH Amount
    August 2012 2360 258***
    July 2012 1868 200
    June 2012 1741 187
    May 2012 1138 117

    April 2012 1119 114
    March 2012 637 66
    February 2012 551 58
    January 2012 795 81
    December 2011 579 62
    November 2011 811 84
    October 2011 1489 160
    September 2011 2081 230
    August 2011 2064 228
    July 2011 2203 244
    June 2011 1749 191
    May 2011 1438 154

    April 2011 870 90
    March 2011 420 47
    February 2011 723 75
    January 2011 1137 117
    December 2010 580 61
    November 2010 980 99
    October 2010 1847 199
    September 2010 2197 240

  7. #189
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    [QUOTE=Florida Joy;14034571]Dan, I hope I can save a LOT more than $300 annually!

    I did the FPL online energy survey a couple of weeks ago, and it told me that my heating and cooling costs are 75% of my bill!

    Since my May - September bills total around 1200, I'd expect to save around 50% of 75% of that amount, or about 450 a year. Is that reasonable?

  8. #190
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    In Home now: 10 SEER 3.5T 2400 CH @ .15KW =1512
    Wants: 20i 17.5 SEER (actual seer on this unit, 17.75 17.5) 4.0 T 2400 CH @ .15KW = 980

    May save 450-550 a year
    Always here

  9. #191
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    In Home now: 10 SEER 3.5T 2400 CH @ .15KW =1512
    Wants: 20i 17.5 SEER (actual seer on this unit, 17.75 17.5) 4.0 T 2400 CH @ .15KW = 980

    May save 450-550 a year
    I prefer not to get into a discussion in this thread regarding load calc and tonnage requirements for replacing the 3.5 ton in my home. Also, I'm not sure of the math involved in plugging in a different SEER/tonnage to come up with cooling cost.

    So, just to compare, can you tell me what the savings might be if I end up going with the 3.0 ton XL20i at 19.0 SEER?

  10. #192
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Savings from longer run times is stricky to estimate. But a fair estimate is an additonal 10-15% savings going from 3.5 ton to 3 ton. So cutting your bills nearly in 1/2 is a fair estimate. You'll save proportionally more in cooler month than hotter months. Although when it's above design conditions on the hottest days, you save even more because it will fall behind a little firther cutting energy use and on those days it my run in either low or high stage almost continously except for a few short periods in the early morning, so you'll really notice an improvement in humidity control. You may even end up setting the thermostat a few degrees armer because it's control humidity so much better with longer run times. See how you get that domino effect? Longer run times means your removing more humidity and are more confortable at a high indoor temprature which in turn means you cna keep it warmer, save money and need less capacity and have more even temperatures, less air noise and more comfort. THe unit will be nearly silent in low stage at most registers.

  11. #193
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    I prefer not to get into a discussion in this thread regarding load calc and tonnage requirements for replacing the 3.5 ton in my home. Also, I'm not sure of the math involved in plugging in a different SEER/tonnage to come up with cooling cost.

    So, just to compare, can you tell me what the savings might be if I end up going with the 3.0 ton XL20i at 19.0 SEER?
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    Savings from longer run times is stricky to estimate. But a fair estimate is an additonal 10-15% savings going from 3.5 ton to 3 ton. So cutting your bills nearly in 1/2 is a fair estimate. You'll save proportionally more in cooler month than hotter months. Although when it's above design conditions on the hottest days, you save even more because it will fall behind a little firther cutting energy use and on those days it my run in either low or high stage almost continously except for a few short periods in the early morning, so you'll really notice an improvement in humidity control. You may even end up setting the thermostat a few degrees armer because it's control humidity so much better with longer run times. See how you get that domino effect? Longer run times means your removing more humidity and are more confortable at a high indoor temprature which in turn means you cna keep it warmer, save money and need less capacity and have more even temperatures, less air noise and more comfort. THe unit will be nearly silent in low stage at most registers.
    motoguy128 - I was looking for energy star to caculate my summer (6 month) energy cost for the 19 SEER in the same manner as he did for the 17.5 SEER. I don't have access to the "table" or computation formula he used to calculate 10 SEER versus 17.5 SEER based on the actual KWH data I provided in my post.

    As far as saving proportionally more in the cooler months, that's just not possible because I turn the air off and open the windows during the day in the late fall and early spring and only run it at night if needed to sleep. I rarely use heat in the winter, maybe once or twice in January if it gets down to freezing. You can see from the billing history I posted that it's the 6 months of summer I'm concerned about.

    I doubt if I'd set the t-stat up a notch with a new system. The RH inside with my old system never goes over 40% and I don't know of ANY new system that advertises less than 50%.... more than likely humidity would be in the 55-65% range, so I'd likely have to set the t-stat DOWN a notch, if anything.

  12. #194
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    Longer run times means your removing more humidity and are more confortable at a high indoor temprature which in turn means you can keep it warmer, save money and need less capacity and have more even temperatures, less air noise and more comfort.
    Definitely a FALSE PREMISE in This Situation:

    It's impossible to improve upon 40% Relative Humidity.!.!!..!!!
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #195
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,287

    Lightbulb

    [QUOTE=Florida Joy;14034921]
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Dan, I hope I can save a LOT more than $300 annually!

    I did the FPL online energy survey a couple of weeks ago, and it told me that my heating and cooling costs are 75% of my bill!

    Since my May - September bills total around 1200, I'd expect to save around 50% of 75% of that amount, or about 450 a year. Is that reasonable?
    $1,200 * 0.7 = $840 A/C ... = $140/ month
    __________ .. $360 Normal use = $60/ month

    40% - 50% = $340 to $420.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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