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  1. #118
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Not good. I would be hesitant to sign with someone who wants to do the actual load calculation after he was awarded the job. What if he finds you only need a three ton? You getting money back? You do know that more systems are installed over sized than correctly sized! You also know that if the temp is 90 to 110 like is was this summer and you have too much air blowing out the vents you may just be short cycling on and off all day long. You may just feel a bit damp. Please note I want you to be happy, I'm not busting on you. We're not looking for a legal pad of documents before you sign, just wanna know the correct size. Think it's code anyways.
    I'm told Manual J is code and the load calc will be done to satisfy code and obtain the approved rebate from the power company. One contractor (one I'll not be choosing) said he could get around Manual J and get me into a 4 ton instead of 3.5 ton by certifying to the county that the customer's comfort required a lower temperature than "design" and therefore 4 ton was appropriate. He never considered that 3 ton might be appropriate. Most other contractors quoted 4 ton with mo mention of Manual J or code requirements.

    The contractor that I'll likely select will install whatever Manual J says for two stage, unless I decide on something different. In that case, he's willing to "fudge" the calculation to make me happy. He quoted me on the 4 ton XL20i, and after considering all I've read here, I've asked for a side-by-side quote on both the 3 ton and the 4 ton Xl20i so I'd know the difference in price BEFORE I make a commitment, and whichever one is installed is the price I'd pay. Discussed this with his "office" (actually, his wife) and she agreed that was a good idea. She promised to provide the updated quote.

  2. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Hmmm... maybe I should have re-phrased my question. Considering the fact that I have a very strong airflow with my existing 3.5 ton condenser/4 ton air handler setup (which is struggling to maintain 77 degrees in the late afternoon), does that indicate my ducts wouldn't handle the airflow from a 4 ton two stage XL20i?
    Without technical data it would only be a guess, but it could also be an indication that the system has never been charged properly and that is why you are having cooling issues. If the airflow is not correct the charge can not be correct.

  3. #120
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Not good. I would be hesitant to sign with someone who wants to do the actual load calculation after he was awarded the job. What if he finds you only need a three ton? You getting money back? You do know that more systems are installed over sized than correctly sized! You also know that if the temp is 90 to 110 like is was this summer and you have too much air blowing out the vents you may just be short cycling on and off all day long. You may just feel a bit damp. Please note I want you to be happy, I'm not busting on you. We're not looking for a legal pad of documents before you sign, just wanna know the correct size. Think it's code anyways.
    I would agree, if the profit margin favors the 4 ton what do you think you will get?

  4. #121
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    Without technical data it would only be a guess, but it could also be an indication that the system has never been charged properly and that is why you are having cooling issues. If the airflow is not correct the charge can not be correct.
    3.5 ton Rheem was charged to capacity on Wednesday after copper leaks were sealed and leak test showed no more leaks. It's cooling better than ever, and is now cycling off in the evenings, at night and in the morning. However, it still cannot maintain t-stat setting in the heat of the afternoon. T-stat set at 75 (actual temp on thermometer is 77 at t-stat location), yet the it won't cool below 76 or 77 (actual thermometer temp of 78 or 79). Since the RH never goes above 40% inside even when it's 80 or 90% outside, I'm still fairly comfortable. However, if I were doing any "activity" or entertaining, I would be sweating. at 78 degrees! That's just me, I guess, but I live alone and want to be comfortable!

  5. #122
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    3.5 ton Rheem was charged to capacity on Wednesday after copper leaks were sealed and leak test showed no more leaks. It's cooling better than ever, and is now cycling off in the evenings, at night and in the morning. However, it still cannot maintain t-stat setting in the heat of the afternoon. T-stat set at 75 (actual temp on thermometer is 77 at t-stat location), yet the it won't cool below 76 or 77 (actual thermometer temp of 78 or 79). Since the RH never goes above 40% inside even when it's 80 or 90% outside, I'm still fairly comfortable. However, if I were doing any "activity" or entertaining, I would be sweating. at 78 degrees! That's just me, I guess, but I live alone and want to be comfortable!
    Did they leave you a service ticket with technical data on it? Pressures, temperatures, voltage , amperage, RH etc.

  6. #123
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    Did they leave you a service ticket with technical data on it? Pressures, temperatures, voltage , amperage, RH etc.
    You're making me laugh! I paid the A/C service company the $75 deductible under my home warranty to "make needed repairs" to get it cooling again. My warranty doesn't require the tech to do anything beyond that, such as diagnosing "efficiency". It cools now, so "needed repairs" have been completed and the service order is closed.

    I received one service ticket when he came out to diagnose and repair the leak in the copper coming from the compressor. The only technical data on it is "8 lb R22" and "ordered accumulator".

    I received a final service ticket when he came back to install the accumulator, and that ticket has "3 lb R22" and "installed accumulator", with the comment "All is OK at this time."

  7. #124
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824

  8. #125
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,485
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Get This, the best.
    I agree if installed sized and ducted properly
    http://www.maytaghvac.com/Maytag-iQ-...p-p/psh4bi.htm
    I agree if installed, sized, and ducted properly. Efficiency and comfort are unreal with this unit for a central system. Blows the xl 20i away IMO

  9. #126
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Looks great, sounds expensive. One of the contractors I invited to bid threw in a quote for a 16 SEER 4 ton Maytag M1200 dual stage as a less expensive option comparable to the 4 ton Carrier 2 stage he quoted me. Seems he's a Maytag dealer and wanted me to consider it... likely he makes more on the Maytag. After I received quotes on the Trane XL20i from Trane dealers, I dismissed his Maytag offering as overpriced. I'll think about asking him to quote me on the iQ, but I'm guessing it's beyond my budget.

  10. #127
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,485
    It is substantially more expensive

  11. #128
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    It is substantially more expensive
    Thanks! I won't waste anybody's time getting a quote.

  12. #129
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    Three to five years all manufacturers will have a line as such.
    Always here

  13. #130
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Hmmm... maybe I should have re-phrased my question. Considering the fact that I have a very strong airflow with my existing 3.5 ton condenser/4 ton air handler setup (which is struggling to maintain 77 degrees in the late afternoon), does that indicate my ducts wouldn't handle the airflow from a 4 ton two stage XL20i?
    It makes us suspect your duct is not handling 3.5 tons very well. Imagine attaching a garden hose to a fire truck. It'll feel like a lot of flow, but it wont flow what the right sized hose will, and won't do a great job of putting out your fire.

    Again, my wag was 900 cfm at .8. Love to know what the number is if you get it checked.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

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