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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
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    3,824
    We have been trying
    Always here

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
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    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    FORGET EACH ROOM!!!! You have a 3.5 ton system right now, it's working (moving air). Find out the TOTAL cfm the system is pushing RIGHT NOW and at what static pressure it's doing it at. THE TOTAL. If you are pushing 1000 at .8, you will never push 1400 at .05, .08 or .1

    This will tell you if your duct system is large enough!
    OK, now I'm starting to see the point of determining total cfm... in combination with ESP, not just to balance the system. I'd guess if it's only pushing 1000 cfm, for example, it's not operating at 3.5 ton capacity, maybe because the ductwork is inadequate? But if it's pushing 1400 now, one could assume it could push 200 cfm more?

    But my basic question remains the same as before... How the h*** does one go about finding someone to evaluate ESP?

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
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    3,824
    I THINK HE HAS IT!!!!!!!!

    2nd question: You are in the best place to find that out. Use the search.
    Always here

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    I THINK HE HAS IT!!!!!!!!

    2nd question: You are in the best place to find that out. Use the search.
    He who? If you mean me (Florida Joy), I'm a she.

    If you mean search for a pro using this site's search, it shows zilch in my neck of the woods. Any other ideas where to search? What title does the specialist I'm looking for go by? Mechanical engineer? Building inspector? ????

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,903
    Part of air balancing is determining total air flow. Along with that checking the static pressure. So you'll know how much air is moving, and if your duct work can support the required air flow for a 4 ton.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
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    503
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Part of air balancing is determining total air flow. Along with that checking the static pressure. So you'll know how much air is moving, and if your duct work can support the required air flow for a 4 ton.
    OK, I see. Need some ideas on how to find someone qualified to determine air flow and static pressure. The contractor locator map link shows nothing for my area. What kind of company does this type of testing?

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,366
    Mite want to look here.
    http://www.certaincomfort.org/
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  8. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
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    Always here

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    Mite want to look here.
    http://www.certaincomfort.org/
    Still nothing in my area. Will keep looking.

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,721
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    There are perfect solutions and near perfect solutions. At some point, unless you are NASA, the cost and benefit of going from near perfect to perfect simply don't match up.
    It's fun watching the picture come into focus for folks. She (Joy) seems to be absorbing it pretty quickly.

    -So, we know you are short airflow for 3.5 tons, but not how much.
    -You'll be installing another return, which will definitely help but we don't know how much.
    -We know your weatherization work has lowered the worst case load, likely to about 2.5 tons (still a high number for house size imo).
    -It's unlikely you'll install less than a 3 ton replacement unit, 3 ton needs a LOT less airflow than 4 ton.
    -If you install a 3 ton 2 stage, low stage will almost definitely have very efficient air flow.
    -3 ton 2 stage will put you right smack where you need to be to efficiently carry your meat of the season load with little to no cycling losses.
    -If you install communicating equipment it will tell you static at various stages.

    So the question becomes, how much further you go to get comfortable that the 3 ton 2 stage is the right decision?
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  11. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    OK, this site lists one in my county, two in an adjacent county. However, they all do commercial/institutional work. They'd do mine, if I insisted, for a price... more than I'm willing to spend.

    Still don't see the benefit of basicly doing an "engineering study" on a single story residence. I'm certain the existing ductwork will handle upsizing from 3.5 ton to 4 ton, my FPL energy survey tech said I'd have no problem doing so, as did EVERY SINGLE A/C contractor, even the one today, who I told I'd be willing to pay extra if the ductwork needed to be upgreded. I'm convinced I have good airflow on my 3.5 ton system (since it was repaired last week), and I'm satisfied that my ducts will handle the little extra flow from the 4 ton XL20i.

    Don't see the need to add another 25 to 30% to my replacement cost... so enough about ESP and total cfm and air balancing already!

    I'm sold on the XL20i 4ton communicating combo with the 950 t-stat. I had one final estimate this morning from another A/C company owner, so I'm now deciding among three contractors whose owners (not salesmen) are offering the same exact equipment, with the same rebates, for significantly different bottomline prices, depending on whether they'll do the electric under their in house EC license, have to hire an outside EC, or plan on getting away with doing their own unlicensed electric work (this worries me).

    I opened another thread discussing the electric, so if you have comments on that issue, please use that thread.

    Thanks for all your help! I will be posting pix of my old Rheem, which is running great since Wednesday. But I'll likely delay the replacement to see what my electric bill is with the repaired Rheem. Maybe until December, depending on when the Trane rebate ends.

  12. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    It's fun watching the picture come into focus for folks. She (Joy) seems to be absorbing it pretty quickly.

    -So, we know you are short airflow for 3.5 tons, but not how much.
    -You'll be installing another return, which will definitely help but we don't know how much.
    -We know your weatherization work has lowered the worst case load, likely to about 2.5 tons (still a high number for house size imo).
    -It's unlikely you'll install less than a 3 ton replacement unit, 3 ton needs a LOT less airflow than 4 ton.
    -If you install a 3 ton 2 stage, low stage will almost definitely have very efficient air flow.
    -3 ton 2 stage will put you right smack where you need to be to efficiently carry your meat of the season load with little to no cycling losses.
    -If you install communicating equipment it will tell you static at various stages.

    So the question becomes, how much further you go to get comfortable that the 3 ton 2 stage is the right decision?
    I was posting when you put this up, so I missed it before I posted my decision about not doing air balancing.

    While I've decided on the 4 ton XL20i, that's not to say it's what the final solution will be. My contractors WILL DO MANUAL J, which is required by code, but only after I've commited to their company doing the work. If the results come out to 3 ton, we'll go with 3 ton. If it's 3.5 ton or more, we'll go with 4 ton.

  13. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Mount Holly, NC
    Posts
    3,115
    and we thought we had you.
    you can perform a cfm test by pressure on the supply ducts... a simple incline manometer can be built, or purchased that will show you the pressure on the system.
    The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
    The three big summer hearththrobs...
    Mel Gibson
    Dwane Johnson
    The A/C repairman

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