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  1. #27
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    Feb 2009
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I am a little confused Printer. On one hand you seem to support socialism in the form of healthcare and other matters, on the other hand you seem to support the concept of capitalism on a global scale without borders. I am missing something you are trying to say.
    Maybe missing a bit. I am for whatever has the best cost/benefit ratio. I do not care if it is delivered by government or business. In the case of healthcare we blow you away in terms of costs for generally the same outcomes. I am for business but I feel someone should keep societies greater good in mind rather than letting business do as it pleases. I am not like some that say, 'Even if we spend 20 Million and it only saves one life it will be worth it.' Sorry the payback to society is not good enough.

    Like the example I gave above with the university and them keeping an eye out for troubled students. It is all well and good to look out for each other and be more involved with everyone's safety but if the lawsuits go through and the university staff get nailed for not doing their due diligence then everyone in the teaching profession will then concern themselves with covering their backside in the odd event they had a troubled student and something went wrong. In the end you just end up with people covering their assets and not doing their job just to keep their jobs. and that is the main problem with government. You have half the positions to deal with the checks and balances insuring nothing can be pined on the few people that make the decisions. So which is worse, a bloated bureaucracy or the odd screw up?

    So I do not really belong in one camp or the other. I know everything has tradeoffs and there is no 'right' solution. Mostly I go for the greater net benefit over time I guess.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    I think his premise and he can correct me if I'm wrong is if you are actively working for the government you can vote, but if you are getting any form of government assistance that you are not currently working for then you dont get to vote.

    I wonder if he also means retired people who worked their whole lives and are now receiving social security do they get to vote?
    I missed the non-salary thing, I had three computers running and was bouncing between the three. One is off now. You have a good point on retirees, and what if you get hurt at work or are off for some kind of disability? Does that mean that you lost half your brain and can not make an intelligent decision at the voting pole?
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Kaufman county, Texas
    Posts
    10,090
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Maybe missing a bit. I am for whatever has the best cost/benefit ratio. I do not care if it is delivered by government or business. In the case of healthcare we blow you away in terms of costs for generally the same outcomes. I am for business but I feel someone should keep societies greater good in mind rather than letting business do as it pleases. I am not like some that say, 'Even if we spend 20 Million and it only saves one life it will be worth it.' Sorry the payback to society is not good enough.

    Like the example I gave above with the university and them keeping an eye out for troubled students. It is all well and good to look out for each other and be more involved with everyone's safety but if the lawsuits go through and the university staff get nailed for not doing their due diligence then everyone in the teaching profession will then concern themselves with covering their backside in the odd event they had a troubled student and something went wrong. In the end you just end up with people covering their assets and not doing their job just to keep their jobs. and that is the main problem with government. You have half the positions to deal with the checks and balances insuring nothing can be pined on the few people that make the decisions. So which is worse, a bloated bureaucracy or the odd screw up?

    So I do not really belong in one camp or the other. I know everything has tradeoffs and there is no 'right' solution. Mostly I go for the greater net benefit over time I guess.
    Clever reply printer. I guess we do have to work with whatever we have. My default position is less government=better. More complex problems may require more complex solutions.

    Back on topic, I still want that marxist nerd out of the white-house and I am tired of feeling the pain of our poor. I think our 'poor' need to pay some taxes, basically just asking they carry their own weight for a change, I am pretty sick of hearing the cries from the 'poor'. Most of those whiners live better than I do and I pay taxes. My former helper never has paid any income tax, with two houses. WTF??? The guy is rolling in money and pays nothing.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
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    1,111
    Doesn't the government takes tax off your paycheck? How does your helper not pay tax?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Kaufman county, Texas
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    10,090
    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    Doesn't the government takes tax off your paycheck? How does your helper not pay tax?
    I am assuming you are replying to me. My helper is here from Mexico for ten years or so and told me he has never paid any income tax. He is here legally. Now he has two kids. But he also has two houses. Never paid a penny of income tax.

    Something radically wrong here. I pay taxes and I do not have a house. It's just not fair.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,548
    Yes that is what I meant New Old Tech. And I am undecided about those who collect social security - I'm just not as sure about that group. Them having previously worked for it sort of puts them on the cusp to me. So . . . . let's exclude social security recipients for now. <g> With that decision made - how My Plan ? <g>

    PHM
    --------




    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    I think his premise and he can correct me if I'm wrong is if you are actively working for the government you can vote, but if you are getting any form of government assistance that you are not currently working for then you dont get to vote.

    I wonder if he also means retired people who worked their whole lives and are now receiving social security do they get to vote?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,548

    The fear of the aristocracy is the problem

    During the 1930's this country came to the brink of a second revolution and it terrified the US aristocracy. FDR remedied this with social security and the rest of his programs.

    In the late 1790's the French peasants revolted against a system which they found unfair to them. They succeeded because the desperation of a parent watching their child starve develops a will to succeed perhaps unsurpassed in human experience. The short version is that they stormed the Bastille and cut the heads off the aristocracy.

    That same thing happens in the US every month. But here when the angry peasants get to the gates of the Bastille the gates open a small crack and a check pops out. And so the peasants are distracted from their circumstance for another month.

    We basically have a system in place which bribes the peasants not to cut the heads off of the US aristocracy. And another system which gets someone else to fund it for them. It's truly brilliant.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,982
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Yes that is what I meant New Old Tech. And I am undecided about those who collect social security - I'm just not as sure about that group. Them having previously worked for it sort of puts them on the cusp to me. So . . . . let's exclude social security recipients for now. <g> With that decision made - how My Plan ? <g>

    PHM
    --------
    Another member "GA-HVAC-TECH" , proposed only land owners should be able to vote. Both your ideas have merit but I dont think could be implemented in the foreseeable future. What we can strive for IMO is a more conservative government that tightens the reins on people that are receiving the freebies. And if someone is receiving a government handout they should be required to do some work for it. Clean public parks, roadways, etc.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
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    1,834
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    The answer to me is simple and the law already exists. If you and I are business partners and you are a judge - you cannot rule on a case involving me or our business together. Why? Because to do so represents A Conflict Of Interest.

    Simple, basic, existing law.

    OK; so from now on, anyone who takes direct-payment non-salary money from the government in any form - cannot cast a vote, for the period of time they are receiving funds, and for one year following the conclusion of the payments.

    All we need to do is to apply and enforce the existing conflict of interest laws.

    You just discounted everyone on Social Security.
    It is so tied up in a knot, you have to be careful what you untie....
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  10. #36
    Years ago, I did some work on a hog farm, vacinating newborn piglets. You very quickly learned; 1. NEVER pull a piglet from a teat, they get to squalling with a rather blood curdling screach and 2. Momma sow ain't happy when you do and will tear your butt up.

    Pretty much the picture I get everytime election season rolls around....
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    During the 1930's this country came to the brink of a second revolution and it terrified the US aristocracy. FDR remedied this with social security and the rest of his programs.

    In the late 1790's the French peasants revolted against a system which they found unfair to them. They succeeded because the desperation of a parent watching their child starve develops a will to succeed perhaps unsurpassed in human experience. The short version is that they stormed the Bastille and cut the heads off the aristocracy.

    That same thing happens in the US every month. But here when the angry peasants get to the gates of the Bastille the gates open a small crack and a check pops out. And so the peasants are distracted from their circumstance for another month.

    We basically have a system in place which bribes the peasants not to cut the heads off of the US aristocracy. And another system which gets someone else to fund it for them. It's truly brilliant.
    And you pay to keep (sort off) social harmony. Now what is the root cause of the current situation? And no not government as they are only filling a gap that something else caused.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,268
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    And you pay to keep (sort off) social harmony. Now what is the root cause of the current situation? And no not government as they are only filling a gap that something else caused.
    People living beyond their means...who wouldn't want fancy things...after all our entire media is based around wealthy people. Their fancy lifestyles are everywhere you turn...nothing at all wrong with being wealthy...but the only thing your poorest person dreams about is getting the 75,000 dollar car they saw on TV last night, so they accept money from someone offering them a loan at extreme interest rates even though they only make 7.50 an hour, just because they have paid their current bills on time. This to me spells trouble.

    In my opinion the people giving out the loans are no different than the mob....I'll give ya this extremely unstable loan...but if you don't repay it in a timely manner I will take away every thing you own...basically your life.

  13. #39
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    Apr 2012
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    Paper Street Soap Company
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    2,304
    How many people is your health care system responsible for?

    And would it be so efficient if 20 million Mexican citizens decided to jump on board without bothering to go through the proper channels ?

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