People should have to take a test before they are allowed to vote.

[ga-hvac-tech]

The reason that Ido not believe in conspiracy theories is this

The is no one to run them. Everywhere I go, no matter what I need done, people are just dumber than dog ****. So where is this giant labor pool of brilliant effective people? And they can keep a secret too? For yeaRs and decades?

Please!!!

P H M

IMO you just answered your question:

YOU do not see them... because they WANT to be hidden from view.

Does a person printing bad money print pink $3 bills... no, they print bills close enough they FOOL the public. One has to LOOK for a conspiracy before they will find it... Check out this thread:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1#post14001381

IMO the question is not whether a conspiracy exists... rather whether one is willing to question activities at a level to prove a conspiracy. There is an old saying about politics: Follow the money trail, you will find the answers. With Google, that is not very hard, just takes time. Somewhere there is ALWAYS someone that profits (either financially or through political power) from any legislation (conservative, liberal, libertarian). Just follow the money trail... however it will make you cynical if you do...

Folks who are intentionally cheating... do not broadcast it... they HIDE it. They HATE the light of day shining on their behavior.

So IMO to say it does not exist simply because I do not see proof of it... is IMO kinda limiting what I am willing to let my mind 'see'... Again IMO: kinda like refusing to think outside a box.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

I didn't say that I don't believe in conspiracies because I cannot see the evidence for them - I don't believe in them because I don't believe that the talent pool exists to operate them successfully. <g>

I can't get my order right at the drive through window without circling the building three times, or get a three pole contactor to go along with the three phase compressor I ordered, but yet, somewhere there are secret cabals of evil geniuses all efficiently operating in total secrecy? How can that be? Where did they come from? Another planet? <g>

The president of the United States can't get a blow job in his private office without somebody finding out about it. But I am supposed to believe that somehow, somewhere, some secret group of quiet geniuses is efficiently at their malevolent work?

The only conspiracy theory that I can agree with is that of the simple mindless accumulative effects of systemic stupidity. <g>

PHM
------

IMO you just answered your question:

YOU do not see them... because they WANT to be hidden from view.

Does a person printing bad money print pink $3 bills... no, they print bills close enough they FOOL the public. One has to LOOK for a conspiracy before they will find it... Check out this thread:

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1#post14001381

IMO the question is not whether a conspiracy exists... rather whether one is willing to question activities at a level to prove a conspiracy. There is an old saying about politics: Follow the money trail, you will find the answers. With Google, that is not very hard, just takes time. Somewhere there is ALWAYS someone that profits (either financially or through political power) from any legislation (conservative, liberal, libertarian). Just follow the money trail... however it will make you cynical if you do...

Folks who are intentionally cheating... do not broadcast it... they HIDE it. They HATE the light of day shining on their behavior.

So IMO to say it does not exist simply because I do not see proof of it... is IMO kinda limiting what I am willing to let my mind 'see'... Again IMO: kinda like refusing to think outside a box.

[ga-hvac-tech]

I didn't say that I don't believe in conspiracies because I cannot see the evidence for them - I don't believe in them because I don't believe that the talent pool exists to operate them successfully. <g>

I can't get my order right at the drive through window without circling the building three times, or get a three pole contactor to go along with the three phase compressor I ordered, but yet, somewhere there are secret cabals of evil geniuses all efficiently operating in total secrecy? How can that be? Where did they come from? Another planet? <g>

The president of the United States can't get a blow job in his private office without somebody finding out about it. But I am supposed to believe that somehow, somewhere, some secret group of quiet geniuses is efficiently at their malevolent work?

The only conspiracy theory that I can agree with is that of the simple mindless accumulative effects of systemic stupidity. <g>

PHM
------

IMO there is a HUGE difference between a doofas counter guy who is paid minimum wage, and a family which has been a banking dynasty since the 1200's (think Rothschild). Read the book: A history of Money (forgot the author)... It is amazing how a few families influenced history as thoroughly as they did.

[chaard]

Declaration of Independence, second paragraph (paraphrased):

Each citizen has rights given 'by the creator' (meaning GOD, which is a higher power than mankind, so also a higher power than govt).
There is a HUGE difference between a govt that believes it is their job to guarantee the rights granted by God, and a govt that thinks (incorrectly) they have the power to give and take away rights.

The difference is in what we expect and are willing to accept. If enough citizens realize they are being fooled and lied to... they will vote the bums out and replace them with folks who believe and respect the words noted in this post.

Only then will we get our country back.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

According to the DOI we grant the Govt these rights as well as they grant them to us. If the Govt is abusing their powers we are to overthrow the Govt and the Govt is to be abolished. And a new order is to be formed. So our Founding Fathers gave us an out.

So is it better to abolish the Govt and start over or wait till our Govt has absolute control over us and cannot be overthrown?

[ga-hvac-tech]

According to the DOI we grant the Govt these rights as well as they grant them to us. If the Govt is abusing their powers we are to overthrow the Govt and the Govt is to be abolished. And a new order is to be formed. So our Founding Fathers gave us an out.

So is it better to abolish the Govt and start over or wait till our Govt has absolute control over us and cannot be overthrown?

I think the answer to that question lies in this question: Does one believer they would be better off ten years down the road with: ONE-a govt that takes more and more from you, or TWO-supporting the abolishment of the govt and forming a new one that respects the people's will? Remember, the question is ten years down the road, not tomorrow. Now when we talk about 'better off'... should we remember the debt which has been growing for 4+ decades? Should we remember the ever loosing of freedoms? Should we remember the endlesss growth of hopeless bureaucracy? Should we remember the growth of crime? Should we remember the moral decay of our society? Or is what feels good and easy today the only thing of importance?