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  1. #14
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    As I stated I inform that there will be a service call charged and it is justified, no warranty covers cost fully and the deductible is just part of ding business. As I stated what insurance has no deductible, some may not but they are premium polices and cost extra. Look at Lennox and Carrier warranties they have different levels and pay dependent upon the policy purchased. The Goodcare policy is very inexpensive and therefore pays very minimal rates.
    Classical - Goodcare is a premium warranty. I don't have the original invoice in front of me, but I believe it cost me at least $extra for it when the system was installed. Also, for most products (like automobiles, appliances, electronics) there is usually no deductible when you purchase extended warranties. I agree that the standard Goodman warranty (the one that comes free with the unit) does not cover even the labor, it covers parts only, but Goodcare cost significant amount up front and comes with premium coverage including labor. Isn't diagnostics just part of labor?
    Last edited by beenthere; 08-09-2012 at 07:01 PM.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
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    6,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave27519 View Post
    Classical - Goodcare is a premium warranty. I don't have the original invoice in front of me, but I believe it cost me at least $ dollars extra for it when the system was installed. Also, for most products (like automobiles, appliances, electronics) there is usually no deductible when you purchase extended warranties. I agree that the standard Goodman warranty (the one that comes free with the unit) does not cover even the labor, it covers parts only, but Goodcare cost significant amount up front and comes with premium coverage including labor. Isn't diagnostics just part of labor?
    No offense but you have no clue about the cost of a warranty, I sell Goodman and it is a good product but what they pay for repairs does not cover my cost or make me a profit. I will also say that I almost never have warranty issues on any product I sell because it is installed properly. Things like capacitors and contactors I get paid less than 1/3rd of what my retail charge is even less on motors or compressors.

    With other brands like Carrier or Lennox I can purchase/sell higher levels that pay more for warranty repairs, they cost a great deal more than what Goodcare cost.

    You are telling me that when you wreck your car there is no deductible, or when you have an extended warranty on a car there is no deductible. I will tell you on an automobile extended warranty there is a deductible on most unless you pay for the upper echelon products.
    Last edited by beenthere; 08-09-2012 at 07:02 PM.

  3. #16
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    I can only answer from my own perspective which may be different than a lot of other contractors. If someone were to call me in a case like yours & want to switch the contractor who services their Goodcare contract it would depend on a few things.
    1 - How close you are to my home base
    2 - What the installation & accessibility looks like.
    I think the compensation is fair for most jobs so that wouldn't be a problem for me.
    The biggest problem that most of us have with warranties is it guarantees in a negative way that we won't get any big job changing out any equipment for a long time. Warranties protect the consumer but not the contractor. When we install the equipment we want it to last trouble free for a good period of time so it benefits our customers & in return benefits us & our reputation. A warranty in that case helps relieve some of the responsibility but when its another contractors job then we don't have any responsibility other than what we assume if we get involved. If you're considering looking for someone else to service the warranty I would recommend contacting Goodman to find out their policy. It may be a matter of the correct paperwork in order to do the change before another contractor can get paid & I have no idea how it works. I do know they have be registered as a Goodcare dealer first.
    Thanks Gary, I really appreciate your honest unbiased feedback. A few thoughts so far based on my research and feedback from you and others:

    1. The Goodcare written T&C's are vague on "diagnostic" fees. From my perspective (As the HO), they seem to be written that ALL labor (including diagnostics) are fully covered and I am pretty sure I was told when I bought the warranty that there would be no out of pocket expenses. (Although I admit I don't remember with 100% certainty). At best, the diagnostic fee is an inadvertent loophole in the Goodcare contract, at worst it was written to be deceptive on purpose.

    2. Because Goodman does not specifically mention "diagnostic" fees in the T&C's I could see where a contractor can take the opportunity to charge this fee for extra profit. Again, this feels like a "loophole" to me.

    3. Seems some contractors do charge this fee, others do not. I will be looking for one who does not as I believe this is what the Goodcare contract says.

    4. Goodman's warranty dept so far has not taken a strong position on this either way and in fact at this point seems to lean toward the contractor position that this fee is OK. (I'm still emailing and talking back and forth with them and will post the resolution).

    5. It's hard for me to believe that this issue has never come up and that Goodman has not taken a position one way or the other. Could it be they are afraid to tell the contractors that do charge diagnostic fees they no longer can do so for fear they will start pushing Carrier, Trane, or another brand to their customers?

  4. #17
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    I'd love to see what was actually put in writing and given to the homeowner. I can't see anyone buying an extended warranty after being told, or given in writing, something like what is in red above.
    Agree 100%!!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    3,178
    This thread has got me curious.
    I might just find out what Goodman's position is if a dealer asks them. It may not be the same as if a HO asks them because of liability issues. Even if they told me it was OK to charge a fee I still wouldn't. If I felt I needed to charge a fee I wouldn't sell the warranty to begin with.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
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    15,919
    Guess someone did not like my post, and I was being really nice.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
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    We've been a goodman/amana dealer for decades.
    It has always been:
    1st year, 100% free, unless it's something we didn't do, or a completely imagined problem. Even then we sometimes let it slide.

    Anything after that has a diagnostic fee.

    Warranty coverage is for the part, and the labor (if purchased) to replace the part. Not the labor to find the incorrect part, or any damage caused by the failed part (coil pan leaked, and water damaged something in your basement).
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  8. #21
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    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    Guess someone did not like my post, and I was being really nice.
    Its in the Pro forum version of this thread.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  9. #22
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    We've been a goodman/amana dealer for decades.
    It has always been:
    1st year, 100% free, unless it's something we didn't do, or a completely imagined problem. Even then we sometimes let it slide.

    Anything after that has a diagnostic fee.

    Warranty coverage is for the part, and the labor (if purchased) to replace the part. Not the labor to find the incorrect part, or any damage caused by the failed part (coil pan leaked, and water damaged something in your basement).
    What am I missing?
    You sell a Goodcare 10 year labor warranty.
    The labor to replace the bad part is free but the labor to find the bad part is not. That sounds like double talk.
    The warranty company has already accounted for things like recovery, refrigerant, diagnostics, etc. in the amount of hours allotted to do the job. I couldn't look a customer in the eye that I sold the warranty to & tell them I've got to charge a diagnostic fee to find a bad capacitor.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
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    4,975
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    What am I missing?
    You sell a Goodcare 10 year labor warranty.
    The labor to replace the bad part is free but the labor to find the bad part is not. That sounds like double talk.
    The warranty company has already accounted for things like recovery, refrigerant, diagnostics, etc. in the amount of hours allotted to do the job. I couldn't look a customer in the eye that I sold the warranty to & tell them I've got to charge a diagnostic fee to find a bad capacitor.
    You'll find what is essentially my reply in the pros forum.
    I honestly wish it WAS covered under GOODMANS warranty. Problem is, it's not.
    I'm just telling the original poster what our company does, and how a large chunk of dealers operate.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    What am I missing?
    You sell a Goodcare 10 year labor warranty.
    The labor to replace the bad part is free but the labor to find the bad part is not. That sounds like double talk.
    The warranty company has already accounted for things like recovery, refrigerant, diagnostics, etc. in the amount of hours allotted to do the job. I couldn't look a customer in the eye that I sold the warranty to & tell them I've got to charge a diagnostic fee to find a bad capacitor.
    Found the following Goodman dealer document:

    http://johnstonesupply9.com/docs/GOO...URE%201009.pdf

    On page 3 under "Service Rate Schedule", it states: "Reimbursements for labor, travel time, diagnostics and shipping of parts are all built into these reimbursement allowances."

    Seems like any contractor charging the customer diagnostic fees is "double dipping" from Goodman and the customer. What I don't understand is why Goodman is not taking a solid position, especially if they already are reimbursing contractors for diagnostics?

  12. #25
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical View Post
    You are telling me that when you wreck your car there is no deductible, or when you have an extended warranty on a car there is no deductible. I will tell you on an automobile extended warranty there is a deductible on most unless you pay for the upper echelon products.
    In cases where there is a deductible on an extended warranty (like on a car), that deductible is clearly spelled out on the contract. In the case of Goodman's standard Goodcare agreement there is no mention of a deductible or any out of pocket cost. If you add a separate contract when you sell a Goodcare agreement between you and the customer that explains there is a diagnostic fee for any warranty call, then you are probably covered legally. In my case the contractor has no such separate agreement but still wants to charge the diagnostic fee.

  13. #26
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyed View Post
    What am I missing?
    You sell a Goodcare 10 year labor warranty.
    The labor to replace the bad part is free but the labor to find the bad part is not. That sounds like double talk.
    The warranty company has already accounted for things like recovery, refrigerant, diagnostics, etc. in the amount of hours allotted to do the job. I couldn't look a customer in the eye that I sold the warranty to & tell them I've got to charge a diagnostic fee to find a bad capacitor.
    Very well said!! The Goodcare agreement states the following: "LABOR - We are responsible for furnishing servicing labor related to the replacement of Goodman parts at no cost to you in fulfillment of this agreement."

    Isn't diagnosing the problem "related to the replacement of Goodman parts"? You can't make a repair or replace a part without first diagnosing, so clearly they are related. Also the statement "no cost to you"? To me that very clearly means what is says, "no cost to you". If the intention of this agreement was to allow contractors to charge a diagnosis fee wouldn't the T&C's be written "The only cost to you is the diagnosis of the problem" and not "no cost to you"?

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