Goodman Goodcare Warranty Diagnosis Fee?

[JarrodS]

If my co. originally installed the system, and we sold you the extended warranty, I would come out and fix it for "FREE" and deal with Goodman on the issue....If a simple diagnostics fee is going to keep bread off your table, you need to find another line of work

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

[Dave27519]

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

Outstanding!!! There is hope that I can find a local guy who is ethical and will do a good job. Thanks for the update!!

[Dave27519]

Anyone know of a good contractor in the Cary/Raleigh, NC area that can provide Goodcare warranty work without a diagnostic fee?

[garyed]

I just read one of my Goodcare contracts & there is nothing that remotely suggests paying any extra fees to the contractor for a covered warranty repair with the exception of "repairs done outside of normal business hours". As a matter of fact the way the contract is worded, Goodman is responsible to reimburse the customer for any charges they incur for the warranty repair. The HO is responsible for unit accessibility but that's about it. That is probably why they offered to reimburse the OP in this situation. They do not expect the HO to incur any expense & so they reimburse the contractor but ultimately they are responsible to make sure the HO does not pay for anything that is covered. I blame manufacturers all the time for cheaping out & causing us problems but in this case I can't blame Goodman because a contractor wants to get more money than they contractually agreed to.

[JarrodS]

with the exception of "repairs done outside of normal business hours".

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

[Dave27519]

I just read one of my Goodcare contracts & there is nothing that remotely suggests paying any extra fees to the contractor for a covered warranty repair with the exception of "repairs done outside of normal business hours". As a matter of fact the way the contract is worded, Goodman is responsible to reimburse the customer for any charges they incur for the warranty repair. The HO is responsible for unit accessibility but that's about it. That is probably why they offered to reimburse the OP in this situation. They do not expect the HO to incur any expense & so they reimburse the contractor but ultimately they are responsible to make sure the HO does not pay for anything that is covered. I blame manufacturers all the time for cheaping out & causing us problems but in this case I can't blame Goodman because a contractor wants to get more money than they contractually agreed to.

Gary - I agree with your interpretation, however, here is the specific item in the Goodman contract my contractor pointed to that they say allows for charge of diagnostic fees. They sent me a copy of the T&Cs with yellow highlight on the words below to "prove" they are justified in charging the diagnostic fee:

"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions."

I believe my contractor got it wrong and my interpretation of this section is that if the contractor comes to my house and finds the system is working properly and that he has to "demonstrate" how to operate the system (due to user error) or "confirms" that the system really is working properly, then the purchaser (me) is responsible to pay for the service call (this is perfectly acceptable, if the system is working it's not a warranty call and I should pay the contractor for his time).

In general, the whole agreement has numerous areas of wording that I interpret to mean the purchaser should have no out of pocket expenses during the warranty period. It is curious though that the word "diagnostic" does not appear anywhere (either as a covered or non-covered expense) and even more curious that Goodman warranty dept seems to agree (or at least leaning toward agreeing) with my contractors interpretation.

[tipsrfine]

I agree with your interpretation of the wording Dave.

[second opinion]

Gary - I agree with your interpretation, however, here is the specific item in the Goodman contract my contractor pointed to that they say allows for charge of diagnostic fees. They sent me a copy of the T&Cs with yellow highlight on the words below to "prove" they are justified in charging the diagnostic fee:

"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions."

I believe my contractor got it wrong and my interpretation of this section is that if the contractor comes to my house and finds the system is working properly and that he has to "demonstrate" how to operate the system (due to user error) or "confirms" that the system really is working properly, then the purchaser (me) is responsible to pay for the service call (this is perfectly acceptable, if the system is working it's not a warranty call and I should pay the contractor for his time).

In general, the whole agreement has numerous areas of wording that I interpret to mean the purchaser should have no out of pocket expenses during the warranty period. It is curious though that the word "diagnostic" does not appear anywhere (either as a covered or non-covered expense) and even more curious that Goodman warranty dept seems to agree (or at least leaning toward agreeing) with my contractors interpretation.

Your interpretation of the paragraph is 100% correct and your dealer is wrong. And if you check with the insurance commissioner in you state you will probably find that any dealer that charges a diagnostic fee to perform the contract is illegal.

[garyed]

...........
"PURCHASERS RESPONSIBILITIES - you will be responsible for the costs of any service call requested to demonstrate or confirm the proper operation of the Product(s), to correct an improper installation, or to correct malfunctions in the Product(s) related to the operation of the Product(s) in a manner not prescribed by, or cautioned against, in the Goodman Operating and Installation Instructions." ...........................

I read the same thing & don't see how anyone can interpret that to include a fee to find a defective warranty part.

[jpsmith1cm]

JarrodS

This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

[Dave27519]

Your interpretation of the paragraph is 100% correct and your dealer is wrong. And if you check with the insurance commissioner in you state you will probably find that any dealer that charges a diagnostic fee to perform the contract is illegal.

second opinion - Very interesting comment. Personally, I'd like to see Goodman take a position and enforce that position with their dealers. Seems that most of the pros on this site agree with my interpretation that there should be no out of pocket based on the terms in the contract. I wonder if Goodman would take a position if I "offered" to send a copy of the T&C's to my state's (NC) insurance commissioner to get their interpretation of the agreement? Could be an interesting conversation......

[classical]

Lord you people make a at lot of stink about nothing and then you throw around thinks like immorality and unethical. I think most of you just spout this nonsense to make yourself feel good and appear superior.

First off I do not remember anyone saying they charged a trip charge or diagnostic fee to their customers and certainly not in the first year.

For all those trying to sound all superior and the OP answer this, you go on a service call (not your install) that turns out to be covered by an extended warranty. The compressor is shorted to ground, do you charge a diagnostic fee to determine why the compressor failed, determine why at no charge or just replace the compressor blindly without determining the underlying problem.

If you do the first option good for you, if option two is your choice why bad business decision and option three whom is being unethical and immoral here.

For the OP which do you think is appropriate and why.

For me I am going to check TESP and determine airflow, perform an acid test check voltage and do what I need to correctly diagnosis the reason for the compressor failure. The same would go for other issues and these things are not covered by warranty.

Now if this is my install then I do not need to go through these because it was done properly in the first place.

To the OP you seem like a person the old adage penny wise and pound foolish might apply. You had a contractor come out that you have used and admitted they have performed well and did a quality install on your systems. Now you have a unit that is appears from your comments to be over ten years old develop a leak. They recommend you install a new condenser but you choose to have another contractor repair the leak for half the price. OK what is the warranty on the repairs and what do you do when in six months or a year it develops another leak. Will you spend the other half of that condenser to have it repaired with no warranty; because no company is going to warranty a unit against future leaks.

I will also say this in thirty years I have never had a customer question or complain about the policy of charging a trip charge on a warranty call.

One more question to the OP and the techs here, OP have you had annual service performed on either or both of your systems and to the techs what do you do when the customer calls up three years after an install has never had you out to service the equipment. Do you still say not trip charge.

[garyed]

..............
First off I do not remember anyone saying they charged a trip charge or diagnostic fee to their customers and certainly not in the first year.
...................



and to the techs what do you do when the customer calls up three years after an install has never had you out to service the equipment. Do you still say not trip charge.

I'm sorry but I can't let you slide on that statement I highlighted in blue. Here's a quote from one of us on this thread.

I charge a diagnostic fee on all warranty calls regardless of brand and whether or not we installed the equipment and it is in my proposal.

That was one of the things that got this discussion going a lot stronger.
As for your last question, my answer is still no I do not charge a trip charge or diagnostic or anything if it is still under the parts & labor warranty. The only time they would incur a charge is if there was some sort of abuse that caused a problem or if someone else worked on the unit & did something that caused a problem. I want my customers to call me because they're comfortable with my service & trust me. I never want someone to call me because they feel obligated to.

[classical]

You are right I did say that but I worded it incorrectly, yes in my proposal it says that because I need to protect against customer abuse and frivolous nuisance calls. I do not charge a fee at my discretion. I should have included a caveat to my statement and frank thought I had.

You are saying that if you go to a house and the equipment is three years old and the compressor failed you are just going to replace the compressor. You are not going to determine why that compressor failed. No compressor (almost) is going to fail in less than ten years and more likely longer than that if it was installed properly. I for one am going to know why (or make every effort to find out) a component failed prematurely. It is obvious under most circumstances why a capacitor fails but not a compressor and to a lesser extent a motor or board.

[Dave27519]

Yikes....calm down classical. No one is attacking you personally, just having a lively discussion. I appreciate all the comments here, even the ones I don't agree with. Bottom line, I wouldn't mind paying a "diagnostic" or "trip" fee if that were clearly spelled out up front in the contract I purchased. Since it wasn't it's my opinion that the contract should be followed as it was written. To address your other questions:

For all those trying to sound all superior and the OP answer this, you go on a service call (not your install) that turns out to be covered by an extended warranty. The compressor is shorted to ground, do you charge a diagnostic fee to determine why the compressor failed, determine why at no charge or just replace the compressor blindly without determining the underlying problem.

Not my situation, my problem was a starter cap that probably took all of 3 minutes to figure out. If the scenario above was my situation I would have appreciated if the contractor presented his findings and asked which option I prefer including what the diagnostic charge will be if I choose option 1 (maybe that fee would even be higher than the flat diagnostic fee or just charge me by the hour until you find the root cause). Bottom line, I should have a choice and I would accept the consequences of that choice.

To the OP you seem like a person the old adage penny wise and pound foolish might apply. You had a contractor come out that you have used and admitted they have performed well and did a quality install on your systems. Now you have a unit that is appears from your comments to be over ten years old develop a leak. They recommend you install a new condenser but you choose to have another contractor repair the leak for half the price.

Maybe you are right about me being penny wise and pound foolish, but contractor 1 gave me no option for repair. Contractor 2 gave me the choice and fully explained the potential consequences. If the evaporator develops a leak in 6 months, oh well it didn't work out too well for me but I will accept the consequences. My gut feel on contractor 1 is they were trying to extract more $$ for a replacement. Contractor 1 did get their diagnostic fee for that job so they did OK, but it still was a SIGNIFICANT savings even though I used contractor 2. By the way, the unit is 7 years old and the capillary developed a leak because they were rubbing together, had nothing to do with the evaporator itself. Next time the unit develops a leak, I'll just replace the R22 unit with an R410 unit anyway (but it won't be contractor 1 that gets the biz). Hopefully that is longer the 6 mos from now but if it is only 6 months I made the choice and I'll accept the consequences.

I will also say this in thirty years I have never had a customer question or complain about the policy of charging a trip charge on a warranty call.

Don't know what to tell you about that except that I am a good customer that pays my bill, but I won't roll over and play dead if I'm getting ripped off.

One more question to the OP and the techs here, OP have you had annual service performed on either or both of your systems

Yes, I do, but that's not the point. My failure was a starter cap and had nothing to do with routine maintenance. It was clearly a failure that should be fully covered under the warranty I purchased.

I know you probably don't want to hear that some on this forum do not agree with your policy of charging diagnostic fees on warranty repairs, but that's what makes this board so interesting....lively discussions and not everyone is going to agree. No one is going to hold a gun to your head and tell you to stop charging diagnostics, even if we don't agree that it's OK. If its working for you, please continue. I don't have to do business with you as a customer, but it sounds like you have plenty of customers that do.....

[Dave27519]

I want my customers to call me because they're comfortable with my service & trust me. I never want someone to call me because they feel obligated to.

Amen Gary!!! Wish you were in the Cary/Raleigh market!!

[classical]

Yikes....calm down classical. No one is attacking you personally, just having a lively discussion. I appreciate all the comments here, even the ones I don't agree with. Bottom line, I wouldn't mind paying a "diagnostic" or "trip" fee if that were clearly spelled out up front in the contract I purchased. Since it wasn't it's my opinion that the contract should be followed as it was written. To address your other questions:



Not my situation, my problem was a starter cap that probably took all of 3 minutes to figure out. If the scenario above was my situation I would have appreciated if the contractor presented his findings and asked which option I prefer including what the diagnostic charge will be if I choose option 1 (maybe that fee would even be higher than the flat diagnostic fee or just charge me by the hour until you find the root cause). Bottom line, I should have a choice and I would accept the consequences of that choice.



Maybe you are right about me being penny wise and pound foolish, but contractor 1 gave me no option for repair. Contractor 2 gave me the choice and fully explained the potential consequences. If the evaporator develops a leak in 6 months, oh well it didn't work out too well for me but I will accept the consequences. My gut feel on contractor 1 is they were trying to extract more $$ for a replacement. Contractor 1 did get their diagnostic fee for that job so they did OK, but it still was a SIGNIFICANT savings even though I used contractor 2. By the way, the unit is 7 years old and the capillary developed a leak because they were rubbing together, had nothing to do with the evaporator itself. Next time the unit develops a leak, I'll just replace the R22 unit with an R410 unit anyway (but it won't be contractor 1 that gets the biz). Hopefully that is longer the 6 mos from now but if it is only 6 months I made the choice and I'll accept the consequences.



Don't know what to tell you about that except that I am a good customer that pays my bill, but I won't roll over and play dead if I'm getting ripped off.



Yes, I do, but that's not the point. My failure was a starter cap and had nothing to do with routine maintenance. It was clearly a failure that should be fully covered under the warranty I purchased.

I know you probably don't want to hear that some on this forum do not agree with your policy of charging diagnostic fees on warranty repairs, but that's what makes this board so interesting....lively discussions and not everyone is going to agree. No one is going to hold a gun to your head and tell you to stop charging diagnostics, even if we don't agree that it's OK. If its working for you, please continue. I don't have to do business with you as a customer, but it sounds like you have plenty of customers that do.....

I am in a great deal of pain right now and taking vicodin 3, I tripped and broke three ribs Monday so I am not fully coherent at times.

I was under the impression that the repair was to a condenser not an evaporator coil somewhat of a different situation.

It should take no tech more than 5 or 10 minutes to diagnosis and verify a bad capacitor.

Throughout this discussion I have primarily been discussing general situations not necessarily your specific issue.

[garyed]

......................
You are saying that if you go to a house and the equipment is three years old and the compressor failed you are just going to replace the compressor. You are not going to determine why that compressor failed. No compressor (almost) is going to fail in less than ten years and more likely longer than that if it was installed properly. I for one am going to know why (or make every effort to find out) a component failed prematurely. It is obvious under most circumstances why a capacitor fails but not a compressor and to a lesser extent a motor or board.

I hate to admit it but I'm just not that smart. When a compressor fails under warranty which is not very common the only thing I know to do is check to see if everything is working up to spec. If its a burn out I add some acid treatment but other than that I put in a new dryer & try to see how close the charge is to what the unit calls for by SH & SC & weight. I check the static & that's about it. If there is an airflow problem, sometimes its fixable & sometimes not within reason but I see a lot of compressors go 15 years under adverse conditions. I've had a few restrictions that I suspected caused the compressor to go out but I really think the majority of failures are not explainable. It sounds like a lot but I don't think I've changed more than three or four compressors under warranty on systems I installed in over thirty years. Even counting the ones I didn't install, most of them never gave me a reason that pinpointed why they failed.

[second opinion]

I am in a great deal of pain right now and taking vicodin 3, I tripped and broke three ribs Monday so I am not fully coherent at times.

I was under the impression that the repair was to a condenser not an evaporator coil somewhat of a different situation.

It should take no tech more than 5 or 10 minutes to diagnosis and verify a bad capacitor.

Throughout this discussion I have primarily been discussing general situations not necessarily your specific issue.

I told you retirement was harder on you than working

[Dave27519]

I am in a great deal of pain right now and taking vicodin 3, I tripped and broke three ribs Monday so I am not fully coherent at times.

I was under the impression that the repair was to a condenser not an evaporator coil somewhat of a different situation.

It should take no tech more than 5 or 10 minutes to diagnosis and verify a bad capacitor.

Throughout this discussion I have primarily been discussing general situations not necessarily your specific issue.

No worries at all....hope you are feeling better soon. Careful with that Vicodin stuff...known a few to get hooked on it.