God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
Its in the Pro forum version of this thread.Originally Posted by Mr Bill
Guess someone did not like my post, and I was being really nice.
Professional Member*
What am I missing?
You sell a Goodcare 10 year labor warranty.
The labor to replace the bad part is free but the labor to find the bad part is not. That sounds like double talk.
The warranty company has already accounted for things like recovery, refrigerant, diagnostics, etc. in the amount of hours allotted to do the job. I couldn't look a customer in the eye that I sold the warranty to & tell them I've got to charge a diagnostic fee to find a bad capacitor.
Gary
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http://www.oceanhvac.com
The best things in life are free but not everyone is willing to pay the price.
When you appreciate what you have, you have a lot more.
Professional Member*/ARP Committee
You'll find what is essentially my reply in the pros forum.
I honestly wish it WAS covered under GOODMANS warranty. Problem is, it's not.
I'm just telling the original poster what our company does, and how a large chunk of dealers operate.
"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."
"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."
"Just get it done son."
Dad adjusted
Regular Guest
Found the following Goodman dealer document:
http://johnstonesupply9.com/docs/GOO...URE%201009.pdf
On page 3 under "Service Rate Schedule", it states: "Reimbursements for labor, travel time, diagnostics and shipping of parts are all built into these reimbursement allowances."
Seems like any contractor charging the customer diagnostic fees is "double dipping" from Goodman and the customer. What I don't understand is why Goodman is not taking a solid position, especially if they already are reimbursing contractors for diagnostics?
Regular Guest
In cases where there is a deductible on an extended warranty (like on a car), that deductible is clearly spelled out on the contract. In the case of Goodman's standard Goodcare agreement there is no mention of a deductible or any out of pocket cost. If you add a separate contract when you sell a Goodcare agreement between you and the customer that explains there is a diagnostic fee for any warranty call, then you are probably covered legally. In my case the contractor has no such separate agreement but still wants to charge the diagnostic fee.
Regular Guest
Very well said!! The Goodcare agreement states the following: "LABOR - We are responsible for furnishing servicing labor related to the replacement of Goodman parts at no cost to you in fulfillment of this agreement."
Isn't diagnosing the problem "related to the replacement of Goodman parts"? You can't make a repair or replace a part without first diagnosing, so clearly they are related. Also the statement "no cost to you"? To me that very clearly means what is says, "no cost to you". If the intention of this agreement was to allow contractors to charge a diagnosis fee wouldn't the T&C's be written "The only cost to you is the diagnosis of the problem" and not "no cost to you"?
Regular Guest
hvacvegas - I appreciate your inputs....seems quite a few contractors do operate this way, however, if you read the details of the Goodcare agreement very carefully and with an open mind I don't think the intention when it was written was to allow contractors to charge diagnostic fees.
Professional Member*/ARP Committee
How did goodman feel about it?
Sounds like your beef is with goodman, not your contractor.
If your not happy with the service you recieved, I would suggest you find a contractor that is willing to do the diagnostic for free.
By the way, the document you produced may not be the same as your warranty coverage. Your using documentation from a previous year, and is an informational document, intended for dealers. Not whats spelled out as your warranty coverage.
"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."
"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."
"Just get it done son."
Dad adjusted
Regular Guest
Really the beef is with both. I don't think the contractor is justified to charge the fee based on the wording of the contract. However, Goodman is not enforcing their contractors to fulfill warranty work based on the wording in their Goodcare contract (my opinion). From the posts on this Forum, sounds like there are a mix of contractors who do and do not charge the diagnostics fee. I just need to find a local one who agrees with my interpretation of the Goodcare contract and does not charge the fee. The other option is to get a lawyer, but I hate lawyers and I'm sure that would cost a lot more than a lifetime of diagnostic fees
Professional Member*/ARP Committee
Ask goodman if they're being payed for it. Apparently, they're not.
"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."
"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."
"Just get it done son."
Dad adjusted
Regular Guest
You are probably right. Maybe what happened is Goodman cut the warranty diagnostic labor allowance while at the same time started looking the other way as contractors make up the difference by charging the customer a "diagnostic" fee. Basically Goodman taking the money from the contractor who in turn passes that along to the HO?
Professional Member*/ARP Committee
If that is truely what is occuring, then it would just be goodman not living up to their end of the bargin.
Dealer still has no contract with you, and has no requirement to even perform warranty service to begin with.
Which is why I doubt you'll find a contractor that won't require a diagonostic fee.
"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."
"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."
"Just get it done son."
Dad adjusted
Regular Guest
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Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 08-10-2012 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Non AOP member
Professional Member*
A few questions.
Setting aside the diagnostic fee-
Are you happy with the contractor?
Did he do a quality installation?
Does he show up on time?
Is he professional?
If you answered yes- I'd pay the man before I called anyone else out. That's my opinion. Is it really worth it to call out someone else who didn't install the system? Who knows what quality work you will receive.
On my installs- I charge a diagnostic after a year. I have to. There's no real money to be made on warranty work- no matter how the manufacturer spins their words. I will waive the fee for certain situations but I spell it all out in their contract.
Remember- on a quality installation which I'm assuming you have- warranty work is rare. If you are lucky- this could be the only repair needed for years- assuming you have regular service performed.
I say pay the man & move on. It's not worth rolling the dice on a new contractor who didn't install the system.
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This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.
You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.
Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 08-10-2012 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Non AOP member
Professional Member*
If my co. originally installed the system, and we sold you the extended warranty, I would come out and fix it for "FREE" and deal with Goodman on the issue. If I am not happy with what Goodman paid, I would still sell there products, I just would never sell any of my customers another one of there warranties. this is a cut and dry method, and the most fair for everyone involved, period! If your worried about making a few bucks later on, if you might anticipate any issues, add it to you total in the beginning, you don't argue with your customer that spent thousands "with you" and is now "HOT" or "COLD" over a simple diagnostics fee, this is not an ethical way of doing business. If a simple diagnostics fee is going to keep bread off your table, you need to find another line of work, I don't know about anyone else in this business, but I am making money, and plenty of it.....
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
Regular Guest
JarrodS - I think you are spot on. If the contractor tells you there is no "fee" or "out of pocket expense" I would get that in writing.
The more I think about it, I don't think it's likely the omission of "diagnostics" from the contract was a simple oversight. I'm sure Goodman did not put the contract out there without thorough review from their legal dept, so it's more likely they left the loophole open on purpose for contractors who want to charge this fee while not "officially" telling their contractors to go ahead and charge it.
When I spoke to Goodman warranty dept supervisor, they did not take a strong position either way on the fee but did offer to reimburse me without much of a fight. Seems to me their strategy is most people will just pay the fee and shut up. On the rare occasion that someone (like me) actually calls to complain they will quickly offer to reimburse the fee. They probably save significant $$ this way, especially if they reduce the warranty reimbursement amount they pay contractors by about the same as the fee. Legally they probably believe they are covered due to the vague wording in the contract. Although I do think a good lawyer would have a good chance of winning the argument in favor of not allowing the fee in court based on the contract wording.
My real issue is not so much the fee (which is not that much), but the principal that I feel the whole process is deceptive and unethical.
Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 08-10-2012 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Edit quote
Professional Member*
Just easier to pay the fee to the contractor and have Goodman reimburse you. You are still getting the work for free.
Sent from my ERIS using Tapatalk 2
Professional Member*
But why should the customer have to deal with Goodman? he bought the warranty from the A/C Co. seems to me if it's going to be a burden on the A/C Co. to sell these warranties, stop selling them. When I take my truck to the dealership "were I bought it" and have a repair done under warranty, I don't contact GM, unless of course I am not happy about something.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
Regular Guest
precision hvac - All very valid points!! I agree it would be MUCH easier to pay the fee and get the reimbursement that Goodman offered. A couple issues with this:
1. I don't like the idea of calling Goodman every time I have warranty work to get reimbursed.
2. I think the whole process is deceptive and unethical. Probably most of the blame lies on Goodman for allowing the loophole, but the contractor is not completely innocent either.
Agree the install was done very well and in general the original contractor has done a pretty good job in the past. I have two units (the other one is Carrier and is out of warranty). Same contractor installed both units. Earlier this year a leak developed in one of the capillary tubes on the Carrier. The original contractor said the whole condenser had to be replaced at a very high cost. I called another contractor for a 2nd opinion. The 2nd contractor agreed to repair the capillary at overall less than half the cost of replacing the condenser. (the biggest cost was 8.5 lbs of R22....ouch!!!)
Reason I mention this is I'm not 100% happy with original contractor based on these two incidents. However, I agree the risk is great moving to another contractor who did not install the system. It's a matter of holding on principal vs. taking the path of least resistance (I tend NOT to be a guy who takes path of least resistance!!)
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