Goodman Goodcare Warranty Diagnosis Fee?

[Dave27519]

My 3 year old Goodman Heat Pump stopped working (problem was the starter cap). I purchased the 10 year parts and labor Goodcare warranty when the unit was installed. I had the same contractor that installed the unit come out to perform the service. They informed me that there would be an $$ "diagnosis" fee to perform the warranty work. I read the T&C's of the Goodcare Warranty, and while the wording is a bit vague, the T&C's seem pretty clear that all parts and labor should be covered under the warranty.

Here is an excerpt from the Goodcare T&C's:

"We are responsible for furnishing servicing labor related to the replacement of Goodman parts at no cost to you in fulfillment of this agreement."

I called Goodman Warranty dept and they side with the contractor in this case. Any Goodman dealers out there familiar with Goodcare warranty details care to comment? Is this "diagnosis" fee common for warranty work? I'm feeling pretty ripped off right now.

[energy star]

What was the diagnosis?

[garyed]

Everyone has a different way of doing business. I sell a lot of Goodcare warranties & normally there is no charge to the customer if it is covered under the warranty contract. There are exceptions, if it is after hours or a weekend I let them know there will be an extra charge because that is not considered normal business hours. I'm surprised Goodman sided with the contractor but there may be more to the story. If there is no more to it then it doesn't seen right.

[Dave27519]

The diagnosis was the starter cap on the condenser motor, certainly quick and easy to figure out.

[catmanacman]

Might be time to find another contractor that does goodman good care most contractors can

[garyed]

The diagnosis was the starter cap on the condenser motor, certainly quick and easy to figure out.

I have two questions,
1 - Was this done during normal business hours?
Approx. 8 - 5 Mon-Fri

2 - Is the unit easily accessible to work on?

If the answer to both those questions are yes then I'm surprised if Goodman is not investigating further. Being charged any type of labor for a covered item defeats the purpose of a labor warranty. The contractor gets reimbursed for labor, refrigerant & recovery on a Goodcare warranty service call. Sometimes he wins & sometimes he loses but the rates are set & just because he wants more money than he gets reimbursed doesn't mean the customer should have to pay. Goodman does not pay any after hours or overtime charges or for anything beyond the scope of a normal repair so there are exceptions. Are you sure you're not leaving something out of the equation?

[gregp]

As was said, each company has their way of doing business. The Goodman warranty covers the part and the labor to install the part. They do not pay for diagnostics, travel, etc. Some companies do not charge the customer (especially if they installed it) and other do to cover expenses.

[Dave27519]

As was said, each company has their way of doing business. The Goodman warranty covers the part and the labor to install the part. They do not pay for diagnostics, travel, etc. Some companies do not charge the customer (especially if they installed it) and other do to cover expenses.

The Goodcare T&C's specifically states they cover travel. They do not specifically mention diagnostics, but the T&C's do say: "LABOR - We are responsible for furnishing servicing labor related to the replacement of Goodman parts at no cost to you in fulfillment of this agreement." Isn't diagnosing the problem "related to the replacement of Goodman parts"? You can't make a repair or replace a part without first diagnosing, so to me they are related and should be covered by warranty? Also the statement "no cost to you"? To me that very clearly means what it says, "no cost to you".

[Dave27519]

I have two questions,
1 - Was this done during normal business hours?
Approx. 8 - 5 Mon-Fri

2 - Is the unit easily accessible to work on?

If the answer to both those questions are yes then I'm surprised if Goodman is not investigating further. Being charged any type of labor for a covered item defeats the purpose of a labor warranty. The contractor gets reimbursed for labor, refrigerant & recovery on a Goodcare warranty service call. Sometimes he wins & sometimes he loses but the rates are set & just because he wants more money than he gets reimbursed doesn't mean the customer should have to pay. Goodman does not pay any after hours or overtime charges or for anything beyond the scope of a normal repair so there are exceptions. Are you sure you're not leaving something out of the equation?

Answer to both questions is yes (in fact took 2 days before they could get a tech out here and the unit is wide open with very easy access). I'm not leaving anything out (at least that I am aware of on purpose).

I was at work when they came, but I told my wife not to pay and have them call me if they want to discuss. They gave her a really hard time, but ended up leaving without payment. They never called me, but a couple weeks later I got a letter from the home office with a copy of the Goodcare T&C's. They highlighted a section of T&C's in yellow that they claim means a "diagnosis" fee is allowed under the warranty terms. The section they highlighted to me says if I call them out for warranty service and when they get here find the unit is working fine and have to demonstrate how to operate the system or if they confirm the unit is working properly, then I pay for the service call which would be perfectly acceptable. That section does not say anything about a diagnosis fee, but somehow the contractor seems to think it does.

When I first called Goodman and got to the warranty dept, the person who answered the phone immediately and very clearly sided with the contractor. I asked to speak to the supervisor who listened to my complaint, said I have a good point, but still seemed to lean on siding with contractor. They offered to reimburse the fee, but since I didn't pay it there is nothing to reimburse. The supervisor also asked for a copy of the letter the contractor sent me, so it's possible they are investigating and do not want to say anything to me until they hear the other side. The fact Goodman was very quick to side with contractor before hearing any details made me think that it's common practice for the contractor to charge diagnostic fees.

What I really wanted to know:

1. Is a warranty diagnosis fee common practice under Goodcare warranty? My experience is every other extended warranty whether an appliance or automobile it is not common practice.

2. If I move to another contractor that is authorized to provide Goodcare service, will he have incentive to do a good job for me since he neither installed the system nor sold me the warranty?

Thanks for all your help and comments. Just trying to figure out if I'm being unreasonable to fight this or not.....thanks.

[classical]

I charge a diagnostic fee on all warranty calls regardless of brand and whether or not we installed the equipment and it is in my proposal. There is nothing about this practice and Goodman, Trane Lennox etc. have no say in the matter.

Myreason for this practice is because customers have a tendency to call about imagined problems and want the diagnosis for free.

Most insurance has a deductible and A/C repairs should be no different.

[garyed]

I charge a diagnostic fee on all warranty calls regardless of brand and whether or not we installed the equipment and it is in my proposal. There is nothing about this practice and Goodman, Trane Lennox etc. have no say in the matter.

Myreason for this practice is because customers have a tendency to call about imagined problems and want the diagnosis for free.

Most insurance has a deductible and A/C repairs should be no different.

There is nothing wrong with charging a diagnostic fee for the reasons you stated but if you sell someone a labor contract then unless you specify a diagnostic fee will be charged it should not be charged. There are no deductibles stated on the warranty policy either. I usually side with the contractor in most cases over the HO because I always assume there's more to the story then what we are hearing. This case sounds pretty cut & dry though. During normal working hours & no adverse conditions a capacitor was replaced. I don't see how can a separate diagnostic charge can be justified with that kind of warranty & under those conditions. I've sold Heil's Help Labor warranty, Carrier's labor warranty & Goodman's labor warranty & never have had to charge anyone a dime for any work that was covered under those contracts. There are no deductibles, period.

[Dave27519]

I charge a diagnostic fee on all warranty calls regardless of brand and whether or not we installed the equipment and it is in my proposal. There is nothing about this practice and Goodman, Trane Lennox etc. have no say in the matter.

Myreason for this practice is because customers have a tendency to call about imagined problems and want the diagnosis for free.

Most insurance has a deductible and A/C repairs should be no different.

Classical - So it seems diagnostic fee is contractor dependent, some charge some do not charge it and the manufacturer has no say in the matter? If true, I guess that's a question that needs to be asked up front when hiring a contractor. I'm a little surprised the MFG has no say since they sold the warranty and "own" the T&C's in the warranty contract. I assume the contractor is a legal authorized agent of the Mfg, wouldn't the mfg have some say in requiring the contractor to abide by the T&C's in the warranty?

By the way, I would have no problem paying for a service call if the contractor determines that the problem was "imagined" and the system is actually working fine (meaning the contractor would get no warranty reimbursement from the Mfg). My issue is if the problem is real (like my case) and Mfg is reimbursing the contractor for the warranty call including labor, then I do not believe I should not have to pay an additional diagnostic fee which to me is part of the cost of labor.

[Dave27519]

There is nothing wrong with charging a diagnostic fee for the reasons you stated but if you sell someone a labor contract then unless you specify a diagnostic fee will be charged it should not be charged. There are no deductibles stated on the warranty policy either. I usually side with the contractor in most cases over the HO because I always assume there's more to the story then what we are hearing. This case sounds pretty cut & dry though. During normal working hours & no adverse conditions a capacitor was replaced. I don't see how can a separate diagnostic charge can be justified with that kind of warranty & under those conditions. I've sold Heil's Help Labor warranty, Carrier's labor warranty & Goodman's labor warranty & never have had to charge anyone a dime for any work that was covered under those contracts. There are no deductibles, period.

Gary - Appreciate your unbiased comments on this issue.

One of my concerns is if I change contractors to one that does not charge diagnostics for future warranty work, could I expect to get good service from that contractor? In other words, is the Goodman warranty reimbursement profitable enough to make it worthwhile even though the new contractor did not install the system or sell me the warranty? If I were in your service market and called you for warranty work under these conditions, would you take the job?

[Dave27519]

As I stated I inform that there will be a service call charged and it is justified, no warranty covers cost fully and the deductible is just part of ding business. As I stated what insurance has no deductible, some may not but they are premium polices and cost extra. Look at Lennox and Carrier warranties they have different levels and pay dependent upon the policy purchased. The Goodcare policy is very inexpensive and therefore pays very minimal rates.

Classical - Goodcare is a premium warranty. I don't have the original invoice in front of me, but I believe it cost me at least $extra for it when the system was installed. Also, for most products (like automobiles, appliances, electronics) there is usually no deductible when you purchase extended warranties. I agree that the standard Goodman warranty (the one that comes free with the unit) does not cover even the labor, it covers parts only, but Goodcare cost significant amount up front and comes with premium coverage including labor. Isn't diagnostics just part of labor?

[classical]

Classical - Goodcare is a premium warranty. I don't have the original invoice in front of me, but I believe it cost me at least $ dollars extra for it when the system was installed. Also, for most products (like automobiles, appliances, electronics) there is usually no deductible when you purchase extended warranties. I agree that the standard Goodman warranty (the one that comes free with the unit) does not cover even the labor, it covers parts only, but Goodcare cost significant amount up front and comes with premium coverage including labor. Isn't diagnostics just part of labor?

No offense but you have no clue about the cost of a warranty, I sell Goodman and it is a good product but what they pay for repairs does not cover my cost or make me a profit. I will also say that I almost never have warranty issues on any product I sell because it is installed properly. Things like capacitors and contactors I get paid less than 1/3rd of what my retail charge is even less on motors or compressors.

With other brands like Carrier or Lennox I can purchase/sell higher levels that pay more for warranty repairs, they cost a great deal more than what Goodcare cost.

You are telling me that when you wreck your car there is no deductible, or when you have an extended warranty on a car there is no deductible. I will tell you on an automobile extended warranty there is a deductible on most unless you pay for the upper echelon products.

[Dave27519]

I can only answer from my own perspective which may be different than a lot of other contractors. If someone were to call me in a case like yours & want to switch the contractor who services their Goodcare contract it would depend on a few things.
1 - How close you are to my home base
2 - What the installation & accessibility looks like.
I think the compensation is fair for most jobs so that wouldn't be a problem for me.
The biggest problem that most of us have with warranties is it guarantees in a negative way that we won't get any big job changing out any equipment for a long time. Warranties protect the consumer but not the contractor. When we install the equipment we want it to last trouble free for a good period of time so it benefits our customers & in return benefits us & our reputation. A warranty in that case helps relieve some of the responsibility but when its another contractors job then we don't have any responsibility other than what we assume if we get involved. If you're considering looking for someone else to service the warranty I would recommend contacting Goodman to find out their policy. It may be a matter of the correct paperwork in order to do the change before another contractor can get paid & I have no idea how it works. I do know they have be registered as a Goodcare dealer first.

Thanks Gary, I really appreciate your honest unbiased feedback. A few thoughts so far based on my research and feedback from you and others:

1. The Goodcare written T&C's are vague on "diagnostic" fees. From my perspective (As the HO), they seem to be written that ALL labor (including diagnostics) are fully covered and I am pretty sure I was told when I bought the warranty that there would be no out of pocket expenses. (Although I admit I don't remember with 100% certainty). At best, the diagnostic fee is an inadvertent loophole in the Goodcare contract, at worst it was written to be deceptive on purpose.

2. Because Goodman does not specifically mention "diagnostic" fees in the T&C's I could see where a contractor can take the opportunity to charge this fee for extra profit. Again, this feels like a "loophole" to me.

3. Seems some contractors do charge this fee, others do not. I will be looking for one who does not as I believe this is what the Goodcare contract says.

4. Goodman's warranty dept so far has not taken a strong position on this either way and in fact at this point seems to lean toward the contractor position that this fee is OK. (I'm still emailing and talking back and forth with them and will post the resolution).

5. It's hard for me to believe that this issue has never come up and that Goodman has not taken a position one way or the other. Could it be they are afraid to tell the contractors that do charge diagnostic fees they no longer can do so for fear they will start pushing Carrier, Trane, or another brand to their customers?

[Dave27519]

I'd love to see what was actually put in writing and given to the homeowner. I can't see anyone buying an extended warranty after being told, or given in writing, something like what is in red above.

Agree 100%!!

[garyed]

This thread has got me curious.
I might just find out what Goodman's position is if a dealer asks them. It may not be the same as if a HO asks them because of liability issues. Even if they told me it was OK to charge a fee I still wouldn't. If I felt I needed to charge a fee I wouldn't sell the warranty to begin with.

[Mr Bill]

Guess someone did not like my post, and I was being really nice.

[hvacvegas]

We've been a goodman/amana dealer for decades.
It has always been:
1st year, 100% free, unless it's something we didn't do, or a completely imagined problem. Even then we sometimes let it slide.

Anything after that has a diagnostic fee.

Warranty coverage is for the part, and the labor (if purchased) to replace the part. Not the labor to find the incorrect part, or any damage caused by the failed part (coil pan leaked, and water damaged something in your basement).