Obama wants to use the IRS to force ObamaCare on us... read on: - Page 5
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  1. #53
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    GA, just curious , how to pay into your church medical fund, do you tithe, fixed amount or what ever you feel like?
    How then is any treatment proportioned?
    Who administers the fund.
    How many are in your church group.
    (I am not looking to insult, just interested)
    thanks barbar

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    You laid out some issues, I answered each one in turn. Where is the argument? The questions that you listed are valid and I gave answers on how we do things. I am willing to learn and grow but do not see where my answers suggest that I do not. You ask me about wait times and lists, I give you up to the date information on how long they are (you did look at the link, right?). You asked on one size fits all health care, I gave how it is delivered. You were concerned about costs, I gave another option on how hospitals can be funded. What more do you want?
    You just don't seem to get it. All the facts , the logic, the comparisons etc. have no meaning to us because we've been completely brain washed. There is no argument or any possible exchange of information on this issue because we've been brain washed. It has nothing to do with intelligence or doing what is in our own best interests. The U.S. is living in the Health Care Matrix. We are the slaves to the Insurance Companies & the Health Care Industry. They don't want anything changing so we don't want anything changing. We need someone to awaken us from health care bondage & Obama just ain't (Neo)the one.
    Gary
    -----------
    http://www.oceanhvac.com
    An engineer designs what he would never work on.
    A technician works on what he would never design.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    How much of that estate $$$ do you want to give away to a crooked system…
    But aren’t the insurance companies giving your insurance premium $$$ away to that crooked system right now? Are they really fighting those charges line-by-line or just passing them on to us?

    For those who get near free healthcare from their employer here is a dose of reality on the real cost of health insurance.
    Company – Aetna
    Coverage - Family of three
    Monthly premium - $537
    Annual Deductible - $11,000
    Annual outlay before in. co pays one dime for your health needs - $17,444

    Not that Obamacare is anywhere near ideal, but it has to be cheaper than that.

  4. #56
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    Brian you had me until you said it has to be cheaper...the Feds are involved. Do I need to say anything more?
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    But aren’t the insurance companies giving your insurance premium $$$ away to that crooked system right now? Are they really fighting those charges line-by-line or just passing them on to us?

    For those who get near free healthcare from their employer here is a dose of reality on the real cost of health insurance.
    Company – Aetna
    Coverage - Family of three
    Monthly premium - $537
    Annual Deductible - $11,000
    Annual outlay before in. co pays one dime for your health needs - $17,444

    Not that Obamacare is anywhere near ideal, but it has to be cheaper than that.
    I stop in a lot of hotels, how would a "hard working" cleaner, pay such a figure.

    Is medical insurance tax deductible for a working person (Is paid from gross or net salary)?

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Brian you had me until you said it has to be cheaper...the Feds are involved. Do I need to say anything more?
    Don’t speak so generally about the Feds until you look closer at what the insurance companies are currently charging. The figures I stated are real, taken right from ehealthinsurance.com. Do you really think Obamacare will require every family to pay $17,000 out of pocket before they pay out one dime? I highly doubt it.

    The insurance companies have perpetrated a rip off far greater than the Feds could pull off. Yet the Right still criticize Obamacare, will not focus on our screwed up healthcare system, insist many will not pay and fail to come up with anything better.

    They act like criticizing Obamacare is a solution, when all it is a distraction. Everyone's crosshairs should be on the insurance companies and the bill fabricators at the hospitals and medical clinics.

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I stop in a lot of hotels, how would a "hard working" cleaner, pay such a figure.

    Is medical insurance tax deductible for a working person (Is paid from gross or net salary)?
    Pretty soon how can anyone in the middle class afford it? It might be easier to just be a part of the lower class, don't own anything, hide your money in a safe deposit box and get everything for free.

    As for med insurance being tax deductible, some or all of your premium is deductible. I know that when insurance is provided by an employer, the employer and employee paid amounts are not taxable.

  8. #60
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    Brian, please provide me with one thing the Feds have taken over and run more effeciently and cost effective than private industry. I'm not saying all private industry is effecient or cost effective. I am saying the Fed programs are not.

    Now as far as your premise that Obamacare is the cure all, who is going to cover the short falls? Oh that's right the tax payers. What was the last budget estimate that it is going to cost the tax payers? 750 billion or some such number. So how is this any better? I won't be paying higher insurance cost but I will be paying higher taxes to pay for the program. Bottom line is it will cost the working class more money. The non-working class, well since they aren't paying now why would they pay in the future?
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Brian, please provide me with one thing the Feds have taken over and run more efficiently and cost effective than private industry. I'm not saying all private industry is efficient or cost effective. I am saying the Fed programs are not.

    Now as far as your premise that Obamacare is the cure all, who is going to cover the short falls? Oh that's right the tax payers. What was the last budget estimate that it is going to cost the tax payers? 750 billion or some such number. So how is this any better? I won't be paying higher insurance cost but I will be paying higher taxes to pay for the program. Bottom line is it will cost the working class more money. The non-working class, well since they aren't paying now why would they pay in the future?
    Then are you also saying that our healthcare system is one of those private industries that is not run efficiently or cost effectively? Because I doubt Obamacare would cost each family of three $17,000 out of pocket before they covered any medical expenses. And that is the cost of private insurance right now. It will increase 10 – 20% every year.

    The problem I see is that the Right has you parroting exactly what they want you to. You seem to be all plugged in about Obamacare but not about what Aetna (and the others) are currently charging. Why? Where is the solution, or even a concern, from the Right?

  10. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Then are you also saying that our healthcare system is one of those private industries that is not run efficiently or cost effectively? Because I doubt Obamacare would cost each family of three $17,000 out of pocket before they covered any medical expenses. And that is the cost of private insurance right now. It will increase 10 – 20% every year.

    The problem I see is that the Right has you parroting exactly what they want you to. You seem to be all plugged in about Obamacare but not about what Aetna (and the others) are currently charging. Why? Where is the solution, or even a concern, from the Right?
    You completely ignored the fact of who has to pay for the shortfalls. You didn't address any of my questions. To play your game, typical left parroting, nice job Obama would be proud.

    Now, is the current system effecient or cost effective. Hell no! I don't pay $17,000 for a family of three. Mine is closer to $10,000, but I have a co-pay and most "routine" things only cost me $20, which is applied to my deductible. It's easy to take the worst case scenario and claim that is what the "average" person pays. Yes there are even those people that CHOOSE not to have health insurance. Why should the Gov force them to? In my state everyone is required to have car insurance....why do I have to get uninsured motorist then? Because there are those that abuse the system.

    On top of that, it pisses me off that I will still be paying for the lazy worthless people that won't get off their butts and get a job to pay for themselves. Remember, the Obamacare doesn't pay for its self, its taxpayer funded. Whether you pay it in insurance premiums or taxes, it still cost YOU and ME more money, period!

    The part that is really bothersome, pick your party I don't care which side of the ailse you want to sit, complains about one entitlement while working behind the scenes or blatantly in the open to support the other entitlements. Healthcare?? What about welfare? Food stamps? SSI? Yes there are those that legitimately use those as a hand up. I will always be willing to support them. But it's not a lifestyle! There are many that figure out the system and have more kids so they get more money. How do we stop them from abusing the system? Or is their entitlement okay by you?

    Barbar had the solution from NZ. They have to work to get their entitlements. Clean city hall, pick up trash along the highway, clean a park, I don't care, but contribute to the country instead of just being a detrement.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    You completely ignored the fact of who has to pay for the shortfalls. You didn't address any of my questions. To play your game, typical left parroting, nice job Obama would be proud.

    Now, is the current system effecient or cost effective. Hell no! I don't pay $17,000 for a family of three. Mine is closer to $10,000, but I have a co-pay and most "routine" things only cost me $20, which is applied to my deductible. It's easy to take the worst case scenario and claim that is what the "average" person pays. Yes there are even those people that CHOOSE not to have health insurance. Why should the Gov force them to? In my state everyone is required to have car insurance....why do I have to get uninsured motorist then? Because there are those that abuse the system.

    On top of that, it pisses me off that I will still be paying for the lazy worthless people that won't get off their butts and get a job to pay for themselves. Remember, the Obamacare doesn't pay for its self, its taxpayer funded. Whether you pay it in insurance premiums or taxes, it still cost YOU and ME more money, period!

    The part that is really bothersome, pick your party I don't care which side of the aisle you want to sit, complains about one entitlement while working behind the scenes or blatantly in the open to support the other entitlements. Healthcare?? What about welfare? Food stamps? SSI? Yes there are those that legitimately use those as a hand up. I will always be willing to support them. But it's not a lifestyle! There are many that figure out the system and have more kids so they get more money. How do we stop them from abusing the system? Or is their entitlement okay by you?

    Barbar had the solution from NZ. They have to work to get their entitlements. Clean city hall, pick up trash along the highway, clean a park, I don't care, but contribute to the country instead of just being a detriment.
    Good post and I am right with you on most of it.

    I am not a fan of Obama or Obamacare. But I am impressed that Obama is trying to fix healthcare. It is more than the Right is doing. They seem to cherish any type of capitalism and criticize all new socialized programs (except those that are already in place).

    As for the shortfalls, it is disgusting that we should have to pay for the deadbeats. They have learned how to take from the working class and Obama supports them. However our healthcare system is now doing harm to our working middle class. The cost is through the roof and hard working Americans are losing everything they own due to a corrupted system. Rather than the Right continually knocking Obamacare, they should publicly recognize our broken healthcare system and come up with a better solution of their own. Where is their solution?

  12. #64
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    True. The concern with Obamacare is how it was forced down everyone's throats. Everyone I believe would agree the current system is broken. The fix is harder to come up with. Throwing something out there like was done is not the way. What is the famous quote, "we have to pass it to know what's in it"....Putting something in place that is just as screwed up as the old isn't the way to move forward. Granted, that's usually how we elect presidents!

    I can't believe I am going to say this because I don't care for her, but Hilary Clinton actually did quite a bit of work trying to accomplish the same idea. Her hubby didn't support or or have control of Congress like Obama did.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

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