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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6
    Hi guys,

    Need some help here. I work at a company and we have 125 Trane 25 Ton RTU's. These are dual Compressor units to make the 25 ton. We have several compressor out at a given time and it is extremely difficult to change a compressor out. It usually takes two of us and we have to open the condensor coils up in order for one of us to get inside to help from the back in order to lift the scroll compressor up on the 4 lug bolts. My question is.....is there something that will assist us in lifting the compressor over the lug bolts before we lower it down? These compressor are heavy. I use a crank up table to get them up the the RTU height, but after that we still have to lift it up and over to land on the lug bolts. It is hard to hit the lug bolts at one time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Motel 6.5
    Posts
    148
    Is there a prybar in your bag of tools? This may help. It is a job for two men and don't try to go cheap on the labor, that is how people get hurt. Check your liquid line driers for blockage. There was a SB for micro Voyagers for this. Do you get multiple low pressure trips and resets? Check anything you can think of, they should be more reliable than this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    534
    http://www.hss.com/g/69305/3000kg_Mobile_Gantry.html
    Try One of these! We have one and works great.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    276
    I insert a piece of 3/8 inch rebar, about 16 inches in length through the loop on top. Using the rebar for a handle, I just grunt it into place. Two men make it easier but I have done it alone, after getting it on roof. I am not opening the coils or getting inside.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for the input guys. I don't think that lift is going to work for me. It would cost me too much money since I work for this company and they would have a fit if I took something that big on the roof.

    lipsofurry, no, I don't have a prybar. Maybe I should look into the flat one that would allow me enough leverage on the bottom of the compressor. These are some heavy suckers though. We have a failure rate of about 10 -15 compressors a year. I don't think that is too bad considering we have 250 compressors total. Two per unit. I think there are several things making our compressors bad. They are for one, we have Novar controls. I don't have alot of experience in controls, but I think Novar is a piece of junk. We have alot of Novar control boards on the units go out. Novar's fix to the problem is to install new triaxes. When they mess up, it does some weird stuff to the unit as far as operation, makes the contact pulse in and out, or just doesn't work. It takes me about 45 minutes to change out a set of Triaxes on one unit. So we do them as they go bad because I don't have that kind of time.
    Some of the other things that are downing are compressors is Trane design flaws. We had Trane Corporate come out and they installed (under warranty) larger driers and we also had a condensor coil breakage issue that they replaced 9 of them also under warranty. Then you look at the compressors that we are putting in new as replacements and you can't help notice how much higher they moved the suction line(kind of interesting).
    Then you get to the last issue....Brown Outs. Hot summer days we are getting spikes and dropps in voltage when most or all of the units are running. And one last thing. Our returns are right at the ceiling line down about 1 feet and our output ducks are right next to that but down about 2 feet from ceiling line that are not even vented down. So we have the return sucking very hot air from the underside of a metal roof and a little cold air but not much is hitting the floor 40 feet down. Kind of a design flaw I would say. The company doesn't want to put the expense to drop both ducts.

    So as you can see with the following issues, I am suprised we don't go through more compressors than that a year. This is only 3 1/2 years into the warranty and so I guess they aren't so worried about it yet because so far, Trane has been taking the compressors back for an exchange. We will see how interested they are when the warranty runs out in another 1 1/2 years.

    Chs, thanks for the rebar trick. I will try that also. Don't know if I will be able to move around that much weight like that, but I will try. They are ackward suckers to move because there isn't much to grab onto, so I am sure the Rebar will help to make up for some of that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    N.E. IA
    Posts
    516
    Unistrut makes a "barn door" trolley that runs in the 1 5/8 deep strut. I've used that to take 60 HP motors out of Joy vane-axial fans. Several of our guys have that type of setup under their ladder racks to hoist heavy items into their trucks. I'll see if I can get some pictures to post.
    "Wheel" mechanics work on "Wheel" chillers

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Motel 6.5
    Posts
    148
    I assumed you had Summit, sorry. Good luck with the Novar. When I change one of these, I use a very strong helper with a weak mind. We get it to the unit and just strong arm the thing. If it was easy, everyone would be in the field.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    crossville
    Posts
    608

    compressore lift

    first purchase two foot piece of 2 inch pvc pipe,
    then rock the compressor back and you can get the pipe under the compressor
    I use an four point dolly outside the compressor cabinet, when you rock the compressore forward it lifts up onto the pipe. it has now cleared the mounting bolts and you can slide it out on the pipe as an rail and onto my dolly. I pick the new compressor up off and bucket top and set it in the compartment I can walk it into place, however you can use the pipe again under the compressor . remember it will roll left or right, so once you have it in far enought roll the pipe which every way to align the bolts, rock it back onto rear bolts, pull out pipe, comprssor drops and you on.
    no problem

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    crossville
    Posts
    608
    Originally posted by restorer
    Thanks for the input guys. I don't think that lift is going to work for me. It would cost me too much money since I work for this company and they would have a fit if I took something that big on the roof.

    lipsofurry, no, I don't have a prybar. Maybe I should look into the flat one that would allow me enough leverage on the bottom of the compressor. These are some heavy suckers though. We have a failure rate of about 10 -15 compressors a year. I don't think that is too bad considering we have 250 compressors total. Two per unit. I think there are several things making our compressors bad. They are for one, we have Novar controls. I don't have alot of experience in controls, but I think Novar is a piece of junk. We have alot of Novar control boards on the units go out. Novar's fix to the problem is to install new triaxes. When they mess up, it does some weird stuff to the unit as far as operation, makes the contact pulse in and out, or just doesn't work. It takes me about 45 minutes to change out a set of Triaxes on one unit. So we do them as they go bad because I don't have that kind of time.
    Some of the other things that are downing are compressors is Trane design flaws. We had Trane Corporate come out and they installed (under warranty) larger driers and we also had a condensor coil breakage issue that they replaced 9 of them also under warranty. Then you look at the compressors that we are putting in new as replacements and you can't help notice how much higher they moved the suction line(kind of interesting).
    Then you get to the last issue....Brown Outs. Hot summer days we are getting spikes and dropps in voltage when most or all of the units are running. And one last thing. Our returns are right at the ceiling line down about 1 feet and our output ducks are right next to that but down about 2 feet from ceiling line that are not even vented down. So we have the return sucking very hot air from the underside of a metal roof and a little cold air but not much is hitting the floor 40 feet down. Kind of a design flaw I would say. The company doesn't want to put the expense to drop both ducts.

    So as you can see with the following issues, I am suprised we don't go through more compressors than that a year. This is only 3 1/2 years into the warranty and so I guess they aren't so worried about it yet because so far, Trane has been taking the compressors back for an exchange. We will see how interested they are when the warranty runs out in another 1 1/2 years.

    Chs, thanks for the rebar trick. I will try that also. Don't know if I will be able to move around that much weight like that, but I will try. They are ackward suckers to move because there isn't much to grab onto, so I am sure the Rebar will help to make up for some of that.
    I just finished doing two years of warrenty on these units for trane, they have alot of problems, like we installed CCH's and wiring harness's, changed lead lag, flip flop the condenser fan motors to different compressors and raised fan cycling to 70 degrees, ( oem 60 degrees)
    replaced alot of compressos, replaced all driers with 30 cubic inchers and here it comes now r you ready




    TXV kits, cut out the fixed orfice and installed factory only txv kits. they r not available in the trane parts houses, factory still denies any problems in public but i got pics

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
    Posts
    4,530
    i have seen a few of these units fail, but another contractor has been taking care of them...i think clean condensors and evaporators are a little more critical than most units because i dont see these problems on the TXV units. you have a lot of failures (even by percentages)...any idea what happened to them?
    "If you pull one more stunt like you just pulled with Tommy, you won't have to get on a plane because I will personally kick your ass from here to Korea!" - Best of the Best

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    6
    Yes, they often go out because of open windings or locked rotor. About 30% of them had burnt freon. We split the condensor coils every year and clean them. We are a little behind on the evap. coils. We only have about 25% of them cleaned this year. We know this can cause a problem, but this year, is the first year that In House Maintenance took over the units and between P.M's, repairs, filter changes, and all of the other responsibilities that I have, my time is limited. Some times I can spend most or all the week on the roof, other weeks, I sometimes can't even go up. The company that we contracted with before, only had a contract to change the filters every three months. This is why our evap. coils are in such a mess. The ones I did do, where so bad, they solid sheets of dirt just caked on them. This is why we were getting so much coil freeze up. We have alot of construction going on in the area, so that is also a big problem. In order for our Condensor Coils to stay efficient, we really need to clean them once every 6 months, but that isn't going to be feasable for us.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    crossville
    Posts
    608
    Originally posted by restorer
    Yes, they often go out because of open windings or locked rotor. About 30% of them had burnt freon. We split the condensor coils every year and clean them. We are a little behind on the evap. coils. We only have about 25% of them cleaned this year. We know this can cause a problem, but this year, is the first year that In House Maintenance took over the units and between P.M's, repairs, filter changes, and all of the other responsibilities that I have, my time is limited. Some times I can spend most or all the week on the roof, other weeks, I sometimes can't even go up. The company that we contracted with before, only had a contract to change the filters every three months. This is why our evap. coils are in such a mess. The ones I did do, where so bad, they solid sheets of dirt just caked on them. This is why we were getting so much coil freeze up. We have alot of construction going on in the area, so that is also a big problem. In order for our Condensor Coils to stay efficient, we really need to clean them once every 6 months, but that isn't going to be feasable for us.
    in reality they have warrenty issues and the factory is doing hush hush work on the corporate clients and not releaseing info to thewir field reps.

    I know cause i have been doing warrent txv installs all over the country for the last two yearson the ycd, tcd series of 181, 241 and 301 units
    it not the dirty coils fault
    the icing is due to 16 cu inch driers stopped up with burned oil. trane has had three oil changes since this started and to stopp the clogged driers they HAVE to install txv's
    also they have a superheat chart that under certain ops should be running supergheat of 50 degrees, this is killing them
    IT ISNT the coils. its tranes attempt to meet feds seer ratings without using txvs,
    Carrier & Lennox knows this cause they r using txv's

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    tri state
    Posts
    296
    LOOK ON THE POST IN TRANE OPP'S MODEL NUMBER INCLUDED
    life is at its best when u learn something new.

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