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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    12

    Amana Heat Pump not Cooling Below 79° F

    About:

    Hi…my name is Mike and we live in a single-level/5 Bedroom/3 Bath - 2758 SQFT “Nohl Crest” Carrington floor model home located in Tampa Bay, FL – contrary to popular belief, the temperature & humidity here are not as bad as other parts of the country…with that said – the weather has been averaging around 91° F with about 65-75% humidity so far this year. I am the owner of a newer “Amana” heat pump system (2.5 Years – 3rd season) installed February of 2010:




    Note*

    • Refrigerant lines were not replaced from the coil to compressor
    • Flex-duct – they replaced one 25’ supply run in attic and approx. 10’ of 18” return flex next to blower
    • After the unit was first installed…this AC company had to make three return trips within the first few months:


    1. The first trip was the very next day as they installed the blower crooked and it looked like the Leaning Tower of Pisa sitting on the plenum
    2. The second trip was during the first summer season in August of 2010 – the circuit board in the air handler & heat pump, contactor, transformer, RV coil & thermostat were all (unexplainably by technician) to have gone bad and were all replaced.
    3. Four more months later…a third return trip was necessary as the “Defrost Board” was not energizing on the terminal and was replaced as bad



    Issue:

    The indoor temperature will not cool below 79° F…intermittently; it doesn’t matter if its overcast outside either…it’s just intermittent regardless of the sun exposure/temperature outside. So I contacted the AC company who installed the system to take a look…the HVAC technician tested the compressor discharge & liquid line temps and told me that everything was fine and that the temp diff was normal for this time of year due to the heat index . I told him that my home was adequately insulated with a new roof and has always cooled to whatever the thermostat was set to…and even in the hottest months! I also told the HVAC technician that the condensate drain was backed up a bit with algae…so I went ahead and completely flushed the line just before he got there…but then he said that we should just wait it out, since the drain may have caused the issue; although, it took 4-5 hours (and nightfall) – the indoor temp eventually dropped to a comfortable 74° F. - that was last week…over the last few days…again the cooling has been intermittently going from 74° F (my setting) on some days and 79° F on others. This is only a 12° drop from outside temps…

    My Questions to this Forum:

    The unit/labor is warranted for 10 years so I don’t foresee an issue, but what do I tell this company? What do I ask them for as far as service expectations? What type of testing and service should I expect? I would like to sound somewhat educated on the subject in the event that the same technician comes out and tries to snow me or talk me out of something that is not covered under warranty.

    Also…can anyone tell me whether or not the system I purchased is adequate for my home and whether Amana is even a reputable/quality product? (I get conflicting opinions on this)

    I am just looking for some advice…any and all input is welcome.


    Thank you for your time,


    BDC

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    WEST COLUMBIA S.C.
    Posts
    275
    2750square feet and 2.5 tons.That is a question by it self. I don't care if the house is covered with bushes

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,858
    The Amana brand is not your problem.
    Looks like the installer is the problem.
    Replaced board, blower, contactor, transformer, coil, and wire?
    WOW.
    See if you can find a different Amana dealer that can actually find the problem and fix it.
    "Hey Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort." And he says, "there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice. - Carl Spackler

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    WEST COLUMBIA S.C.
    Posts
    275
    X2.u have a parts changer

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,786
    Quote Originally Posted by hewitt View Post
    2750square feet and 2.5 tons.That is a question by it self. I don't care if the house is covered with bushes
    He posted the model number of a 5 ton unit. Its been in for 2.5 years, its on its third season.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    12
    I was hoping more members would have responded to this post by now as the house was really warm this last week (we have computer equipment throughout the place to do our jobs) I was as thorough with my explanation as possible and would have provided more if needed; again...I was just looking for some answers and some advice.

    So I just took your advice "2Old2Rock" and hired a NATE certified company to do a diagnostic today.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,467
    Quote Originally Posted by THE_BDC View Post
    I was hoping more members would have responded to this post by now as the house was really warm this last week (we have computer equipment throughout the place to do our jobs) I was as thorough with my explanation as possible and would have provided more if needed; again...I was just looking for some answers and some advice.

    So I just took your advice "2Old2Rock" and hired a NATE certified company to do a diagnostic today.
    In addition to the other checks the Tech takes, - make sure he checks the compressor discharge line temp.

    The compressor's discharge temperature should be measured about 1 to 2 inches away from the compressor on the discharge line. This discharge temperature should never exceed 225°F. Carbonization and oil breakdown can occur if compressor discharge temperatures exceed 225°. There is also a temp it should not go below.

    The three causes for high discharge temperatures are:

    High condensing temperature.

    Low evaporator pressures and temperatures.

    High compression ratios.

    There is a long list of causes & effects within those above categories...

    Tell the Tech you want a documented list of the test data he/she collects!
    Last edited by udarrell; 08-13-2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: a documented list of the test data Tech collects

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    12
    Hi Darrel,

    Thanks for responding (and the other techs above too)...I had another company come out and they dont think (at least not yet) that its a refrigerant issue as the circuit is good, valve is opening and appears to be condensing good - no high discharge temperatures etc.

    They feel that it is Air-Flow related as he found an issue with the air-flow in my return ducting being low on the suction side and was .9 negative pressure on the return by itself....he said the total external should be around .6! So...they want to come back out and change out the return riser etc. The 5 ton I have now was an upgrade from a 4 or 41/2 ton...so the previous company didn't change out any of the return duct and they didnt use the right size on the riser which ties into a mixing box in the attic.

    Since this is load-based and not getting the right air flow....they said that they really cant get an accurate reading but are suggesting I take these first steps. Do you or anyone have anymore feedback on this before I make a decision?

    Again...thanks to all that replied.


    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    In addition to the other checks the Tech takes, - make sure he checks the compressor discharge line temp.

    The compressor's discharge temperature should be measured about 1 to 2 inches away from the compressor on the discharge line. This discharge temperature should never exceed 225°F. Carbonization and oil breakdown can occur if compressor discharge temperatures exceed 225°. There is also a temp it should not go below.

    The three causes for high discharge temperatures are:

    High condensing temperature.

    Low evaporator pressures and temperatures.

    High compression ratios.

    There is a long list of causes & effects within those above categories...

    Tell the Tech you want a documented list of the test data he/she collects!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by THE_BDC View Post
    (we have computer equipment throughout the place to do our jobs) .
    The AOP forums/Ask Our Pro's forums, are restricted to only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC to post advise, questions or commentary in a thread created by someone else. You need to apply for your vetting/* if you wish to participate in threads in the AOP forums. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.
    Last edited by beenthere; 08-14-2012 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Non Pro * Member

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,467
    Quote Originally Posted by THE_BDC View Post
    Hi Darrel,

    Thanks for responding (and the other techs above too)...I had another company come out and they dont think (at least not yet) that its a refrigerant issue as the circuit is good, valve is opening and appears to be condensing good - no high discharge temperatures etc.

    They feel that it is Air-Flow related as he found an issue with the air-flow in my return ducting being low on the suction side and was .9 negative pressure on the return by itself....he said the total external should be around .6! So...they want to come back out and change out the return riser etc. The 5 ton I have now was an upgrade from a 4 or 41/2 ton...so the previous company didn't change out any of the return duct and they didnt use the right size on the riser which ties into a mixing box in the attic.

    Since this is load-based and not getting the right air flow....they said that they really cant get an accurate reading but are suggesting I take these first steps. Do you or anyone have anymore feedback on this before I make a decision?
    Again...thanks to all that replied.
    Wow, .9" of an inch on the Return Side alone is terrible; the negative Return side is added to the Supply Side for the total static which should be .5" or as he said .6" tops.

    The 2.5%m summer design in Tampa FL is 91-F dry bulb; 77-F wet bulb for a high 54% RH; at that 91-F which means a loot of grains of moisture per lb of air to be removed by the A/C. That is a reason not to oversize the system.

    Yes, that Return Air problem has to be properly resolved for the system to begin to cool properly. Get it done right & then check & balance the charge to the new higher heatload on the indoor coil.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    12
    I have 4- desktops, 3- laptops on docks, 1- server, 9- monitors, 2- (32") LCD HDTVs, 1- 60" DLP TV! Not always ALL running at same time...and not in the same room...4 bedrooms and large living room. ; )

    Quote Originally Posted by elvi View Post
    Define computer equipment.
    Are we talking a couple of laptops; or desktops; or do we mean servers?

    I have in the past had as many as 5 servers, and as many client systems running at one time and I can tell you it was a heavier load on my AC than all of the persons in the house AND the stove combined.

    What is the air temperate coming into the return register VS the air temperate coming out of the ceiling registers when the system will not keep up?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Tampa Bay
    Posts
    12
    I heard that before...and was a little concerned about the 5 ton replacing the old 4.5 ton in my 2758 SQFT home...as the rule of thumb dictates - 600 p/ton? or was it 500 SQFT?

    One point still eludes me...why didn't I have any issues the first two seasons?

    Anyhow...thanks for the advice and after the repairs are made to the return...I will drop by to post the results.


    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    Wow, .9" of an inch on the Return Side alone is terrible; the negative Return side is added to the Supply Side for the total static which should be .5" or as he said .6" tops.

    The 2.5%m summer design in Tampa FL is 91-F dry bulb; 77-F wet bulb for a high 54% RH; at that 91-F which means a loot of grains of moisture per lb of air to be removed by the A/C. That is a reason not to oversize the system.

    Yes, that Return Air problem has to be properly resolved for the system to begin to cool properly. Get it done right & then check & balance the charge to the new higher heatload on the indoor coil.
    Last edited by BDC; 08-14-2012 at 05:10 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,786
    elvi, this is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Your post has been deleted.
    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
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