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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,582
    I would like to know why you are not able to afford health insurance for your guys?

    If a family HMO casts $1000.00 per month, pay 50% minimum and that breaks down to $2.50 per hour or $500.00 per month.

    I would pay 100% of the medical for the employee.

    Where i was working the HMO was costing about$300.00 per month with dental.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Baltimore area
    Posts
    1,818
    No way would I even think of taking a job that does not offer bennies . Hell even McD's offers bennies to thier employees . It is ludicras to think that you will be able to get a technician that is worth anything and not offer bennnies . We are all highly trained HVAC technicians who can go to work for any company @ any given time , what makes you think that ANY technician would work for you when company X is willing to offer them so much more ???
    The old saying rings true ....... You get what you pay for !! Just like with anything else in life !!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago, IL
    Posts
    3,317
    I looked at your help wanted ad.

    You know, if I had my own truck and tools, I could also be a "very small company" with "benefits available".

    If you are willing to pay (or otherwise compensate) fairly, you should be able to hire qualified help without too much difficulty.

    Problem is, if someone is smart enough to meet your expectations, it won't be too long before that same person wonders why they are doing it for you if there is little in return.
    Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too little.
    When you pay too much, you lose a little money -- that is all. When you pay too little, you may lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -- it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

    John Ruskin


  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    831

    Adding up

    Originally posted by R12rules
    I jus got a call from a new employer, prospect, who sounds interested in hiring me. He asked what I want for a package.

    I figure he is chargiing 60 an hour, and I hear tell, a good man is worth 2.5 of that. So that comes out to 24 an hour for me. Plus benies.
    I checked online and found I can have Blue Cross ppo for $500 a month.
    Divide $500 into 172 working hours a month and you come out with $2.90 an hour which has to be added to that wage.

    Then add uniforms, take home truck, and some other minor things ... it all adds up.



    hope this helps.
    Others can correct me, but I dont believe 24 per hour plus benies, unis, truck, major tools, employers fica, unemployment ins, workers comp, gas, liability insurance,holidays, vacation, unbillable time, ad infinitum.... charged out at 60 per hour "add up"

    [Edited by cg2 on 09-02-2006 at 02:06 PM]
    eventu rerum stolidi didicere magistro

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    right, here! in the heartland of the homeland!
    Posts
    737

    make up for it in wage

    I will take the wage over the bennies, and make it work, theres always a better way!
    and a better tommorow

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas TX
    Posts
    2,216
    If you can't afford to hire a professional you are going to have to come out of the shell a little bit and help pay for something. If you cant pay 500 for the insurance then add a portion of that to their pay. Also be sure to have something set to the side for other things such as 401k and possibly a fund for vacation.

    Personaly I wouldnt work for any one who couldn't afford benefits unless they could clearly show progress and growth over the past years and where they plan to be in 5 years. There is a huge risk in going to work for a contractor who flat out tells you that you won't have benefits. Being happy where you work goes a long way but if you are worried about insurance and what is going to happen to you should you get hurt or should you want to actualy retire one day. If you are just after some one to groom and grow with not so many responsibilities then go to the tech schools and target the extremely young ones with out a clue on how important that stuff is. Use them for a year or 2 and hire new again if you don't expect to be growing large enough to add bennies.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    phx
    Posts
    30
    I would not have any techs without offering health insurance. I pay 98% of employee premium they pay to insure family. You mention maybe buying insurance for a select few, I dont know how big your company is but you may run into a discrimination issue if the company purchases the insurance for some but not for all. An option you might look at is a PPO with a high deductable maybe have a few agents quote PPO with $1000., $1500. and $2000. deductable. Most companies are carrying a $500. deductable if they buy a PPO. This would at least cover them for major illness. I am not sure on this but I think if you do not employ 25 people you do not have to carry maternity coverage this could save on cost. I think it would be deceitful to not tell them about deductable & coverages when the benefits are presented to them. If they are paying a portion of the premium you can institute a 125 plan that way their portion will come out of their check without being taxed.
    As soon as you can afford it you should upgrade to a lower deductable plan. Just a thought that came to mind when I read your post.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Stoney Creek, Ontario
    Posts
    884
    An employer that cannot pay benefits, would not see my smiling face working for them

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    63
    I'll echo some of the above.

    If an employer cannot provide benefits than the payrate needs to be able to cover at least Cobra coverage, or other personal package.

    Having a spouse with good benefits only allows the tech to be more flexible in his employement decisions.

    That said, a company is still competing for techs with other companies that do provide them. So he needs to offer other things to offset the missing bennies.


  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    333
    Once was young, strong, POOR and single (though not very smart),I thought I was INVICIBLE. Lived for the day. Never saved and didn't go to the doctor unless it was an emergency. You know the cliche- "when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose". Things have changed. House, family, responsibility, etc. I CAN NOT risk losing everything to health related expenses. Rather drive a POS car and apply the difference to my family's health insurance. Company pays MY coverage, BUT I am responsible for the rest. The risk and anxiety of NO health benefits is horrible. My question to all you employers- Would you want to do physical and potentially dangerous work without insurance?
    meanwhile, back at the ranch.....

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    285
    Health insurance is a must at my age

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    CHICAGO SUBURBS
    Posts
    464
    If things don't change, this industry will become yet another job that "americans won't do". The list is getting bigger everyday.It is funny that when I was a kid,I did some of the jobs that "americans won't do". Was a new construction installer at 19 [1983] and worked alongside a guy that was [get this a union journyman][I was an aprentice]. today you won't see many journeyman on a new const. job.Somehow it was affordable back then.We also didn't have A card,B card,C card.you were an aprentice or journeyman and that's it. If I couldn't get bennies from an employer, I would not work for him very long and would be hunting for a better job every waking hour.I see people posting about attracting new talent into this trade, I don't think low pay and no bennies will do that.I know some small contractors will take this as a flame job toward them and belive me, it's not,but everyone wants the best for their family and if you do all the right things i.e study hard and often and never stop,you should try to get what you can.Now the other side of that coin is that you gotta be able to put out or it's the boss man's right to kick you to the curb.Just my humble 2cents.
    Some people swear by me and some at me

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    4,970
    Pikes .... the answer to that is it is your business. PERIOD . You make the rules, as long as your paying workmans comp, social security, all the other taxes required as an employer, your ok.

    Now not saying that you will have people running to you to get a job but some people dont want insurance. I have had employees that their spouse had a better policy then I could even get close to giving them.

    Differant employees want differant things. Maybe a truck to take home, maybe 4 - 10's instead of 5 days a week. Some dont want 40 hours or some want all the overtime they can get.

    Dont let all the examples in here get you down being you dont have all the bennies. Just look at all the young guys just wanting a break to start out and get their foot in the door.

    How many have I hired that dickered over every little thing they could get in bennies and claimed they left their other job being their boss wasnt giving them part of the business so they left. I hired them and could see why the boss didnt give it to them........ they were all talk.

    If they are that good, make them prove it. If they make you that much money, you can afford paying them more. Just make sure you have enough work to keep them busy. If you are not providing the hour, they wont hang around anyway.

    I will probably be flamed but who cares. Everyone doesnt get real good bennies and just depending on where you are tells how many people are needing jobs. How many places have people that like living there and dont want to move but being there is a votec, they have too many in a certain trade.

    People say no way they will work for you with no real bennies ....... such is life, Thats not the guy that will work for you. Not like I really got good bennies when I started out , that didnt stop me. I wanted to learn and get my foot in the door and I did.

    Just keep looking and while your at it, ask them what they would really like. It might be something other then insurance or money, such as not being on call at nights. It may be something that might not be a high cost that you would be willing to do thats less of a cost and more of a change of hours ...... who knows.

    Just dont promise anything you cant back up being its a lot tougher taking things away then making them prove they are worth it. A lot of guys are more important in their eyes than in yours from what I have seen. If their worth it and making you money you can pay more.

    All depends on what the two of you agree is fair but the guys that say they want this much being your making $60 or $150 an hour are not paying all of the cost you are paying as far as overhead so a lot think you are making a killing and everything is going in your pocket. A lot dont understand All of the hours you put in once they go home and your still working away wether it be bids , bills or paperwork.

    If you cant get anyone then there is a problem but it may be more then what the pay and benifits are. Some guys are not ater just money. Some want a life and a job they enjoy going to.





    [Edited by dec on 09-04-2006 at 06:55 PM]

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