How to know which HVAC guy is right

[catmanacman]

If you rely on the contractor's guys you probably will end up with whats best for the contractors pocket and not your comfort .

[RandellP]

If you rely on the contractor's guys you probably will end up with whats best for the contractors pocket and not your comfort .

I hear ya... but what else can I do? The contractor won't guarantee the work of any hvac guy but his own... They all say that. And the job is big enough that it needs to be done while the addition is happening, because some existing rooms are being worked on and having vents moved and such, so the jobs need to be done at the same time... And I don't want to pretend to be a GC...
My only hope was that if I have a design from a design guy that doesn't do installed (someone mentioned these people exist) and give that to the contractor, he has to do what the design says, since that will be in the contract. I figure I can have the design guy inspect later, and if it isn't done right, the builder is responsible for fixing it... assuming he would ever agree to work from someone else's design in the first place...

Randell

[tedkidd]

http://www.energyvanguard.com/hvac-design-protocols/

Allison will help you.

[energy_rater_La]

yeah right.

so things you don't know:
if the existing system has capacity
to allow addition to be heated/cooled.
if plenum has room to add extra ducts,
if return can be added from addtion to existing unit.

rarely do 1 or 1.5 ton units get installed, so it stands
to reason that new unit would at best be 1.5 or 2 tons.
bigger is NOT better, it only causes more issues.
if you add a new unit for this addition you would have
extra air that has to go somewhere.
where does #3 propose to dump this air?
is there an area that is both acessable by location of new
unit to existing house that needs more air?

the problem with a duct design by an independent is that you
have no quality control to make sure that correct layout and size
of ducts match the design. if duct designer can see the house
and space to work with..it goes much better. itrw there are things
in attics that impede duct layout that does not exist on paper.

don't get me wront, I'm all for fixing the house, the ductwork
and that whole route, but if you don't have an installable plan
you are back where you started.

best of luck.

[SkyHeating]

Thanks guys for the kind words. I have not been on much as we have been slammed with work these past couple of weeks. I did talk to Randall via e-mail but mentioned as he said I don't have any interest in just designing a system without having my crew do the install because I could design something with the proper manuals and then the other guys install it wrong and it falls on me.

Randall. What you need to do is tell your contractor that you want your own HVAC guy or he is not your contractor. How much time will you spend in this new addition if it's uncomfortable and expensive to heat and cool. I also have a great list of contractors that build wonderful additions... Properly.

I certainly don't mind consulting with you via email if you would like to send me pricing and what others have mentioned so I can give rough thoughts on it but the only way I make money is installing total package solutions not simply designing.
My thoughts from what I have read so far is that the upstairs in most homes can be zoned so long as there is room to add a return. For additions 8 out of 10 times we recommend a new system rather than adding ducts/zones and have only had people tell me how glad they were to spend the extra.

-travis

[RandellP]

Sorry for the delay.. was on vacation...

I agree on the where does the air go issue. In fact that is part of why I don't want the 2nd system. The current system seems to be slightly over sized as it is... if I reduce the rooms it is cooling upstairs (Some existing space is being remodeled and thus would be heated and cooled as part of the addition) and two zone the existing system, then it will have to dump a lot of air somewhere when it is operating in upstairs only mode. That said... #3 implied that the system would be sized for what it has to work with... but didn't actually say any numbers on size.

And yeah, I thought the designer would still come out and look, but it sounds like that isn't how that works either. So I can see the draw back with that method.

As for contractors... I am having a ton of issues there... Many have no desire to do any detail planning until money is flowing... And I don't want to sign up to pay a contractor until I see his plan. And I think the contractor who gave me hvac guy #3 wants out of the job... told me his carpenter broke his leg... and he won't be able to do the job. But that call came suspiciously after I had talked to the hvac guy and expressed that I didn't really want a 2nd system... I think the hvac guy (#3) wants to do the 2nd system solution because it is easier work than modifying the trunk line that he says isn't big enough for the addition, and thus easier work for more money. Cause the trunk line is in a kinda roof over the front porch. So either the ceiling of the front porch would need to come down, or the roof off to get at it. But if the 2nd system runs about 10k (his words) for just equipment, I can't imagine taking that roof off (or roof and ceiling of porch) could run the same 10k. (someone tell me if I am wrong). And he has no reasons why that solution wouldn't work... he just goes back to "I just think the 2nd system is the only way to solve the problem". Which is usually the refuge of someone who has a direction they want to go, but doesn't want to tell you the real reason.

As for Travis, I totally understand your position... Gonna email you back offline to talk more about possibilities.

Randell

[tedkidd]

Awesome, you see some of the problems 2 systems will create!

Now, you initially said you have a design for the addition. Then later you said "Many have no desire to do any detail planning until money is flowing..."

What is your design comprised of? Are you working with an architect, or is it rough sketches of your concept?

Bid Spec means you have completed designs you take to bid. You'll need an architect or engineer.

Design Build means hiring a contractor and working with them on everything. That means choosing the guy you are most confident can effectively help you realize your vision and starting the money flowing.

Either way the money needs to start flowing to get good design on paper.

[RandellP]

Awesome, you see some of the problems 2 systems will create!

Now, you initially said you have a design for the addition. Then later you said "Many have no desire to do any detail planning until money is flowing..."

What is your design comprised of? Are you working with an architect, or is it rough sketches of your concept?

Bid Spec means you have completed designs you take to bid. You'll need an architect or engineer.

Design Build means hiring a contractor and working with them on everything. That means choosing the guy you are most confident can effectively help you realize your vision and starting the money flowing.

Either way the money needs to start flowing to get good design on paper.

Well I paid a designer draw it up in cad software, and an engineer to get the engineering certified. So basically the overall plan is good to go for city permits. But that doesn't include anything about how the hvac will be done, or how the plumbing will be done... Just the structural stuff. So the one contractor wants to figure things out when he opens stuff up. Which in general I agree you can't be certain what is behind walls and floors. But he should at least have a plan based on what he expects. Like when I asked him if the hvac plan called for an additional return, he didn't know. And it has been more than a week waiting for him to talk to the hvac guy to find out what the plan is... yet he says "I know I can do it for what I priced it at". Which to me translates to, "I overcharged you soo much, there is nothing that can be hiding there that will cause me not to make a profit" Needless to say I am not liking that guy very much.

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