Climate Change Denier Changes His Mind

[Tool-Slinger]

Yeah, what we could have is scary. Maybe we are just a bit lucky right now and things are relatively comfy. I did a lot of reading to answer my questions and it did open my eyes. I am concerned but not convinced though but I see no reason we can not be a little cautious.

I just wonder where is the tipping point, our society is built on greater consumption and growth. It can not go on forever the world is a finite. May not be an issue for the next 10 or 20 years but looking to the next 50 or 100 or 200 years I do not know how we can go on always using more.

Yepper.

An asteroid, major volcanic event, solar spectacle, anything could reduce us back to the stone age. And there have been cyclical ice-ages with 30k warm/100k cold on record and we are due for another one or over-due. Ice sheet over half of the USA, scary. Ocean algae or Co2, nobody knows, but it happens on a regular basis. Scary.

I am not sure where your point is going, but if it is that 'we should be more concerned with maintenance than growth' I am on the same page. I hate waste and extravagance.

[Tool-Slinger]

A common theme for the climate change deniers is that the earth is so vast that we can't have that much effect on it. And yeah, it certainly looks that way in the state where I live or in places like Montana.

And there's the story about how everybody on Earth could live in Texas, which sounds good until you do the math of how closely packed they would be.

But...

The surface area of Earth is 196,935,000 square miles. The current estimate of global population is 7,030,000,000. That's 0.028 square miles per person, or 17.92 acres. Of that, 70% is water, which leaves 5.4 acres of land area per person, with a small portion of that being arable land.

For perspective I consider that what I personally have and personally use or consume and all the waste I create must come from and remain in my 17.92 acres, or more accurately my 5.376 acres of land. I think of how I live and how all those folks in Africa and India and China want to live like me, at least like me and mine. And let's say they live in families of 4 to a house. So on every 20 acres of land on the entire planet there would be a house and outbuildings, a septic system, three vehicles, a big garden, and a trash dump at the least.

That doesn't sound vast to me. That sounds more like Spaceship Earth. If you think I can't make an impact on the environment or add in some measure to the average temperature or affect the atmospheric conditions in my 17.92 acres I think you don't know me very well.

Your math must be wrong. I am sure.

5.4 acres must be wrong.

I know you got that from somewhere, but I just cannot see how that is possible. Sure about that?

Of course I do live in 'fly-over' country. There is nobody here in most places.

[printer2]

Yepper.

An asteroid, major volcanic event, solar spectacle, anything could reduce us back to the stone age. And there have been cyclical ice-ages with 30k warm/100k cold on record and we are due for another one or over-due. Ice sheet over half of the USA, scary. Ocean algae or Co2, nobody knows, but it happens on a regular basis. Scary.

I am not sure where your point is going, but if it is that 'we should be more concerned with maintenance than growth' I am on the same page. I hate waste and extravagance.

I could not say it better myself.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Yepper.

An asteroid, major volcanic event, solar spectacle, anything could reduce us back to the stone age. And there have been cyclical ice-ages with 30k warm/100k cold on record and we are due for another one or over-due. Ice sheet over half of the USA, scary. Ocean algae or Co2, nobody knows, but it happens on a regular basis. Scary.

I am not sure where your point is going, but if it is that 'we should be more concerned with maintenance than growth' I am on the same page. I hate waste and extravagance.

Truth be known... this is why many conservatives dislike liberals; Simple common sense.

[fxb80]

Your math must be wrong. I am sure.

5.4 acres must be wrong.

I know you got that from somewhere, but I just cannot see how that is possible. Sure about that?

Of course I do live in 'fly-over' country. There is nobody here in most places.

It sounds like it has to be wrong. I've done the math 4 or 5 times thinking it is wrong. But I can't find an error.

196,935,000/7,030,000,000 = 0.028 sq.mi. per person
1 square mile is 640 acres
0.028 x 640 = 17.92 acres
30% of Earth's surface area is land
.30 x 17.92 = 5.376 acres

[AStudent]

It sounds like it has to be wrong. I've done the math 4 or 5 times thinking it is wrong. But I can't find an error.

I'm not gonna do the math since I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all those numbers on....but it makes sense....yes there may be a lot of open land but we have to take into consideration all of the people who are crammed into apartment buildings, hotel rooms, and others who are sleeping in back alley ways and under bridges...they take up very little space but if they lived anywhere near how a lot of people do then the math would sound right.

[Six]

So how is your corn crop this year?

And that's because of SUVs and because we didn't heed Al Gores warning and start throwing money at the climate extremist to save us ???


Jeesus, more inane hyperbolic nonsense. THIS is what I'm talking about.

We've spewed so much CO2s into our atmosphere we've actually caused massive droughts retro-actively.

Like the 1930s dust bowl in the mid west. Yep, SUVs did that and Coal fired plants too.

But Wait....drought conditions are not that uncommon on the west coast of many continents.

Hell I should have sold my Ford F250 years ago and sent a check off for exhaling Co2 to Al Gore years ago.


Please provide proof that releasing CO2s into the atmosphere caused the recent drought and all of the droughts that have come before it.

[Tool-Slinger]

I could not say it better myself.

Printer. I do not think I have ever held such respect for a man that I disagree with so much as you. You are an officer and a gentleman. Or at least an honest gentleman.

I figure part of our possible man made GW problem is the same as our real economic problems, which works into our political problems, and makes our personal problems. Extravagance.

I do not want anyone reading this to think I am a quaker or anything. I live within my means, that is all.

We have 5 lanes of traffic each way moving 5 miles an hour each morning in my metroplex because everyone insists on driving their own car to work. Gas fumes spew. "Housing bubble" foreclosures because everyone insisted on the best they could get financed. Trees fell, houses went up. German houses might last 300 years, USA houses might be in shambles in 40. New cars are common, realistically only a very wealthy person can actually afford a new car that will drop in value 20% or so when it is driven off the lot.

Our waste is appalling. Stunning. And it destroys natural resources and causes nasty pollution.

I am not making an environmental statement, but it fits hand-in-hand with sound personal finance policies.

Less debt, Less waste, Less extravagance, and there will be Less pain personally. It may not save the environment, but it will not hurt it. We are all in this together.

[Tool-Slinger]

Truth be known... this is why many conservatives dislike liberals; Simple common sense.

Re-read the posts buddy, Printer is a sorta libby. There is some common ground here I can see, I think it is kind of exciting.

Nice if we can find some unity for a change.

I love arguing with everybody, I learn new things that way, but it makes me feel real good when we agree on something too.

[ga-hvac-tech]

In the scientific community; one STARTS with a hypotheses. Then they look for data to PROVE the viability of the theory. Now this is critically important:

Unless an experiment can be duplicated by ANYONE, at ANY PLACE, with the SAME RESULTS... then the outcome is ONLY THEORY... it is NOT proven.

So far, I have yet to see ANY record of a viable experiment which can be repeatedly duplicated with the same results, to PROVE any of the claims of man-made climate change.

ALL I have seen so far is:
Oh, the world is warming... so it HAS to be mankind's fault... or
Oh, this (fill in the blank) is wrong (is it really wrong, or just something someone either does not like it or realizes they can use it for political gain) so it has to be mankinds's fault... or
Oh, you have been TOO successful, you should be ashamed of yourself... (insert guilt trip supported with fuzzy and un-provable science).

Regardless... I have yet to see any experiment which can be duplicated all over the world by any scientist in any country with THE SAME RESULTS.

Until I do see this... man-made climate change is ONLY AN UNPROVEN THEORY.

Now if anyone does not like this... PLEASE SHOW ME IRREFUTABLE proof that will stand up to the rules of scientific proof noted above... PLEASE SHOW ME, I am willing to listen... however ONLY if the replicatable proof is there.

[AStudent]

And that's because of SUVs and because we didn't heed Al Gores warning and start throwing money at the climate extremist to save us ???


Jeesus, more inane hyperbolic nonsense. THIS is what I'm talking about.

We've spewed so much CO2s into our atmosphere we've actually caused massive droughts retro-actively.

Like the 1930s dust bowl in the mid west. Yep, SUVs did that and Coal fired plants too.

But Wait....drought conditions are not that uncommon on the west coast of many continents.

Hell I should have sold my Ford F250 years ago and sent a check off for exhaling Co2 to Al Gore years ago.


Please provide proof that releasing CO2s into the atmosphere caused the recent drought and all of the droughts that have come before it.

I don't have proof that you would believe that your truck warms the Earth....but I do have proof that you would believe that exhaust from your car can kill you...and if exhaust from one vehicle can kill you imagine what exhaust from millions of vehicles can do.

Warming the Earth...can't prove anything...but vehicles run hot...you are telling me that millions of vehicles running hot are not contributing to the Earth's warming?

What of the heat we expel from our homes? That heat would otherwise be inside the space in which we live...but we transfer it to the outside..not to mention we create MORE heat in the process of transferring heat..how much heat can we transfer before we run out of space to put it? Kinda like if you put your condenser in your garage.

Like I said...can't prove that any of this is warming the Earth...but it's just food for thought.

[ga-hvac-tech]

Printer. I do not think I have ever held such respect for a man that I disagree with so much as you. You are an officer and a gentleman. Or at least an honest gentleman.

I figure part of our possible man made GW problem is the same as our real economic problems, which works into our political problems, and makes our personal problems. Extravagance.

I do not want anyone reading this to think I am a quaker or anything. I live within my means, that is all.

We have 5 lanes of traffic each way moving 5 miles an hour each morning in my metroplex because everyone insists on driving their own car to work. Gas fumes spew. "Housing bubble" foreclosures because everyone insisted on the best they could get financed. Trees fell, houses went up. German houses might last 300 years, USA houses might be in shambles in 40. New cars are common, realistically only a very wealthy person can actually afford a new car that will drop in value 20% or so when it is driven off the lot.

Our waste is appalling. Stunning. And it destroys natural resources and causes nasty pollution.

I am not making an environmental statement, but it fits hand-in-hand with sound personal finance policies.

Less debt, Less waste, Less extravagance, and there will be Less pain personally. It may not save the environment, but it will not hurt it. We are all in this together.

You are beginning to sound like a liberal... Hope this is not contagious... if so I will have to leave ARP again... Because:

That liberal bug stuff is simply NOT acceptable to me...

[Tool-Slinger]

I'm not gonna do the math since I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all those numbers on....but it makes sense....yes there may be a lot of open land but we have to take into consideration all of the people who are crammed into apartment buildings, hotel rooms, and others who are sleeping in back alley ways and under bridges...they take up very little space but if they lived anywhere near how a lot of people do then the math would sound right.

Time for some 'soylent green'.