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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Posts
    9
    I'm looking to add a heat pump to the house (1973) and rid myself of the ridiculous price of heating oil. I current have a Thermo Pride 10 seer 4 ton AC unit and oil furnace in the basement. Don't get me wrong I love my oil heat, but I also love my $$$ I've been reading on this site for days. I'm know very little about this stuff and the visitors here appear to know quite a bit.

    I've had a couple companies out here, and found out how expensive this will be. We plan to be here for a while.

    Company A gave 2 units that are a wash as far as price..
    1) Lennox XP13-048-230 4ton 14seer R410A w/CBX32MV-048-230 air handler, ECB29-15CB 15kW aux.

    2) Trane 4TWX4048B1000A 4ton 14seer R410A w/4TEE3F49A100A air handler, BAYHTR1415BRKB 15kW aux.

    Company B was just a tab cheaper for...
    1) Trane 4TWX4048 and a 4TEE3f49, that was as specific as it got regarding model numbers, but I was a bit more impressed by this company in general. They also gave me a price for a 13 seer Carrier that was several hundred cheaper.

    Both quotes were at my budget for this project. Company A wanted to reuse my existing refrigerant line while B was putting in new.

    I have been far from impressed by several of the others that pull up in a beat up pickup, spend 5 minutes walking around the house, write a number on a napkin and leave. One was several thousand less, but I wouldn't let him change the oil in my car, let alone wire something up in my house.

    Question.
    Is the Trane or Lennox above going to be a better system? My basement is unheated, I have the main level of about 1400sq feet and second floor of 900sq feet. Both told me my existing duct work was fine. Both levels are on one zone. One said the cooling load was 42,540 and heating load was 52,338.

    Should I expect less than the $1500 I have spent for heating oil last year for heating cost? I used about 800 gallons 2 years ago at close to $2 a gallon and a bit over 500 gallons last winter at about $2.8 a gallon.

    From reading it sounds like my savings in AC might be a couple hundred a year at most. Any other suggestions?

    Thanks in advance, and sorry for the novel.

  2. #2
    gto boy Guest
    Where do you live????

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Posts
    9
    Winston-Salem, North Carolina

  4. #4
    I'd suggest changing the lineset since your quotes are for 410A refrigerant.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lancaster,Ohio
    Posts
    464
    What about dual fuel? Keep fuel oil and add a heat pump, that would be more satisfing than 15kw heat package. Fuel oil is good heat, I would have to give it up slowly!!
    IcyFlame

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,428
    Originally posted by s_gibson
    I'm looking to add a heat pump to the house (1973) and rid myself of the ridiculous price of heating oil. I current have a Thermo Pride 10 seer 4 ton AC unit and oil furnace in the basement.

    Both quotes were at my budget for this project. Company A wanted to reuse my existing refrigerant line while B was putting in new.

    Question.

    Is the Trane or Lennox above going to be a better system?

    Both told me my existing duct work was fine. Both levels are on one zone. One said the cooling load was 42,540 and heating load was 52,338.

    ... over 500 gallons last winter at about $2.8 a gallon.

    From reading it sounds like my savings in AC might be a couple hundred a year at most. Any other suggestions?
    Both units mentioned are top of the line from reputable mfgs.

    4TWX6060 / 4TEE3F065 might be an option, after further in depth life cycle cost analysis, to decrease the use of aux electric strips.

    ( Updated )
    ___________________ 0.12
    _____ Kwh _______ $/ kwH
    Summer 4361 _____ $523.32
    Winter 10195 _____ $1,223.40
    Total 14556 _____ $1,746.72

    COP 2.8
    Output 28546 ____ __ kwH
    97,427,498 ____ BTUh

    ______________________ 2.9
    ______ Gallons _____ $ /gal
    Oil 700 _________ $2,030.00
    Savings ______________ $806.60

    It appears to me that heating savings should be > $700
    based on 4TWX4048 and
    use of "an average" 700 gallons at ~ $2.90 for '06 - '07.

    4TWX6060 would save another 1200 kwh ( $144 @ $0.12/kwh)

    Capacity comparison check:
    Gallons 800
    BTU/Gal 132,000
    Input 105,600,000
    Efficiency ___ 0.82
    Output 86,592,000


    [Edited by dan sw fl on 08-23-2006 at 06:18 AM]
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    147
    I live in Fayetteville and in Winston-Salem ya'll have a lot of cold days up there i wouldn't go completely away from fossil fuel i would personally either go with Dual-Fuel or a high efficiency A/C with a high efficiency gas furnace would be my suggestion. and DEFINATELY change the line sets.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Posts
    9
    Originally posted by icyflame
    What about dual fuel? Keep fuel oil and add a heat pump, that would be more satisfing than 15kw heat package. Fuel oil is good heat, I would have to give it up slowly!!
    We did looked into this and one of the guys that came out suggested it as well. Several said the Thermo Pride heat exchanger I had had a lifetime guarantee and would be the last I ever bought.

    I recieved 2 reasons from one not to go this route. He stated the money I saved with a variable speed fan on the new unit vs. the fan on the Thermo Pride would offset the cost for the 15kw heat in our climate. Truth or fiction I do not know. He also mentioned Duke power would give me a discount on my electric bill for being all electric once I changed my heating system. I haven't checked on this yet.

    Gas is not a viable option. Although we considered it. I live in the county and to use gas I would have to have them bring one of those big tanks in. I'm a bit leary to consider keeping oil because I see the price of heating oil as only going UP! It would only save me about $1000 or so for this project to keep my current Thermo Pride oil furnace and heat exchanger as a backup to the 15kw heat.

    Something else I find odd, whenever my current heat or air comes on all the lights in my house dim. I'm guessing it is drawing too much current? It has never been a problem as far as operation, but it can be annoying as it is noticable every time. My guess was it was the fan motor. You can definetly hear it kick in on the main level. On of the guys told me it was OK and operating properly. Sounds like the Thermo Pride has one heck of a blower motor.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,240
    s_gibson

    Since nat gas is not available, forget the fossil fuel backup(propane or oil) and go all electric HP with var speed air handler.

    The Trane quotes from Com A and Com B are the same. If you want additional savings and more comfort, upgrade to Trane's XL16i 2 stg HP if this is within your budget.

    Insist upon a new lineset regardless of refrigerant used.

    Let installing dealer check your electric panel box for "dimming light problem".

    Here is a fuel comparison calculator. I would expect you to save 40-45% in fuel costs over fuel oil.

    http://www.warmair.com/html/fuel_cost_comparisons.htm

    My opinion.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    147
    Steve the big thing you want to consider with changing from fossil fuel to a heat pump is the fact that you are used to fossil fuel and the type of heat you get from it. Yes fuel prices are going up. Electric is the most constant form of energy you just have to think about comfort because heat pump heat isnt as warm as fossil fuel.
    If you are worried about energy savings have you thought about Geothermal?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    High Point, NC
    Posts
    155
    I assume both Companies measured the house and did a manual j calculation to determine size. Also, was the duct system inspected thoroughly. Could the insulation in the house be upgraded to reduce the size of the heat pump or is this a very tight house now?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,927
    Originally posted by iheatncoolinnc
    I assume both Companies measured the house and did a manual j calculation to determine size. Also, was the duct system inspected thoroughly.
    my thoughts exactly
    ductwork needs to be top priority with oil to heatpump conversion

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,927
    Originally posted by s_gibson

    Should I expect less than the $1500 I have spent for heating oil last year for heating cost? I used about 800 gallons 2 years ago at close to $2 a gallon and a bit over 500 gallons last winter at about $2.8 a gallon.

    From reading it sounds like my savings in AC might be a couple hundred a year at most. Any other suggestions?

    Thanks in advance, and sorry for the novel.
    Depends on what the electric cost. Do you have gas hooked up already? What is the climate? I would think that you should see savings.

    All electric is usually the better deal.

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