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  1. #1

    Tridium disadvantages

    Can anyone give any constructive disadvantages of installing a tridium system by a system house over than that say from a mainstream manufacturer I know it is all subjective, from an end user prespective I can only come up with that over time and campus/system extension the client may have multiple contractors installing on the site and no standardization on say graphics, field controllers.

  2. #2
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    Tridium is only the front-end and in fact is a 'mainstream' manufacturer. It has been owned by Honeywell for several years. In addition to Honeywell, many 'mainstream' manufacturers such as Trane, Johnson, Siemens and almost all others use Tridium boxes when the project calls for it.
    "Controls is a lifestyle not a job" -klrogers

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Be prepared for a ROCKY marriage of sorts between yourself , your control contractor(s) and Tridium ( HONEYWELL ).

  4. #4
    If you imply that Siemens, Honeywell, or Tridium is to be your system I would disagree with your thought process. Those are manufacturers of control products, which may not have anything to do with your system design. I would concentrate on your system design.

    What is your intent and what is your position in the matter? I ask you this because this indicates how you approach your solution. If you are a contractor then Tridium can provide you some nice leverage on a project. If you represent the building owner you may not appreciate this leverage in the business arrangement. Then, you may specify how this product is applied and more importantly how it is not applied.

  5. #5
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    It can be done. Write your own specifications and include EXACTLY what you want on and from each system. Be very detailed down to the color of the background.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loubakes View Post
    I can only come up with that over time and campus/system extension the client may have multiple contractors installing on the site and no standardization on say graphics, field controllers.
    That's when the owner standardizes it. If you don't set a standard, then you'll be left with a jumbled up mess.

    I do work for a client that has 100+ JACEs and about 80% are from different manufacturers. On their server, there is standardized graphics in which each contractor utilizes when new controls are installed and integrated into the front end. Also, any time a contractor installs new field devices, the owner gets copies of the programming software and databases, .etc, which is installed on their service guys' laptops. For the most part though, the JACEs are embedded with Workbench, and the controllers are programmed via wizards in Workbench.

    It's really not a bad process. You just have to make that you drill it into the contractors head that they must follow this standard.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the relpy Guys, I am aware that Tridium (Honeywell) do supply the Software to JCI, Seimens, etc. And each manufacture can hang off their branded feild controllers from the Network Controllers so for example JCI have the options of installing two systems 1)Tridium Branded Facility Explore Server, FX60 and FX feild controllers or 2) Metasys (ADX or S) NAE,NCE and FEC

    I know there are other options but I am concentrating on BACnet for the moment.

    So if they were to install the Metasys then this can only be installed and serviced by a) JCI or an agent (In Australia no agent has access to the Metasys product only the FX product)

    If the FX product/system were to be installed is it correct that any Tridium dealer with AX experiance can work on the system and add to it? Sorry I may be confussed but is JCI FX the same product as Tridium AX.

    If this is correct how do you ensure that the system is not locked down???

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    What? Who? Where?
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    If you're in Oz and interested in FX and open systems contact Ronin Controls in Melb.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  9. #9
    Thanks, Yes I have knowledge of Ronin, however they are no longer an authorised dealer of the JCI FX Product

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlY0urMind View Post
    That's when the owner standardizes it. If you don't set a standard, then you'll be left with a jumbled up mess.

    I do work for a client that has 100+ JACEs and about 80% are from different manufacturers. On their server, there is standardized graphics in which each contractor utilizes when new controls are installed and integrated into the front end. Also, any time a contractor installs new field devices, the owner gets copies of the programming software and databases, .etc, which is installed on their service guys' laptops. For the most part though, the JACEs are embedded with Workbench, and the controllers are programmed via wizards in Workbench.

    It's really not a bad process. You just have to make that you drill it into the contractors head that they must follow this standard.

    I would add one more item, make sure all the JACEs are "open" so that any Tridium dealer can access it.
    You can easily judge the character of a man
    by how he treats those who can do nothing for him
    -James D. Miles

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug-e-fresh View Post

    I would add one more item, make sure all the JACEs are "open" so that any Tridium dealer can access it.
    Absolutely! Good point. Thats always something that bites you in the ass!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,420
    agreed "open' is probably THE most important of all. Use Tridium to break the strangle-hold the big-boys have on you and your system. FX is open but you certainly dont need it to talk to an N2 bus.... just use one of the other drivers that are available.

    Your question went to 'disadvantages" of Tridium ... Hmm, there are 2...

    1 - There is Tridium and then there is Tridium. BIG differences between installers in their skills, engineering systems knowledge, etc. Tridium has the cahones to deliver just about anything you want ... but can your installer? Everyman and his dog wanna be Tridium installers ... and dogs are crap programmers.

    2 - The big fellas and their 'partners' will try and shut you down. So if you have a building full of Johnson VMA and you put Tridium over the top ( why would you even consider using FX??) ... all of a sudden you may find that access to spare parts, and programming tools magically evaporates. Or prices skyrocket like... Since when is a DX-9100, the archaic piece of junk that it is, worth $5200 ???? Does a VMA controller really cost $1400 ?
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    210
    I would consider this....
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