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  1. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    I was just reading about another gunman in Aurora who started shooting up some place but an armed citizen was able to kill the guy before the gunman was able to kill more than one person.

    Unarmed citizens = many die and are injured, armed citizens reduce the number of victims while increasing the number of dead criminals.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #119
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SW MO.
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    5,180
    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    So you have no problem with those agencies knowing when you or anyone wants to buy something to protect themselfs, so when the time comes, and it will, they can come and confiscate.

    You need to read your own signature, for you dont seem to uinderstand the meaning of liberty.

    Roy
    Touche'
    Discipline your child so that other parents don't have to.

    We're awl pawthetic and kweepy and can't get giwrls. That's why we fight wobots.

  3. #120
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    20,858
    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    I hope you two aren't lumping me in with that crowd. I'm all for the 2nd Amendment.
    If you've read any of my posts you would know that.
    I don't fear anyone that carries a side arm. In fact I feel safer. I'm only pointing out that it is unusual for someone to be purchasing so much gear and ammunition, that somewhere along the line a red flag should have went up.
    As noted in my posts... I was not focusing on a/any person... rather the liberal mindset of blaming guns rather than people for behavior.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  4. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,808
    Hehehe!...I wonder if Oprah blames a shovel for making her fat?
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  5. #122
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I was just reading about another gunman in Aurora who started shooting up some place but an armed citizen was able to kill the guy before the gunman was able to kill more than one person.

    Unarmed citizens = many die and are injured, armed citizens reduce the number of victims while increasing the number of dead criminals.
    Declawing the cat does not protect it from the pit bull. It is only because the cat has claws that the pit bull is less apt to molest the cat.

    Disarming the general public only ensures the safety of the criminal.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  6. #123
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    985
    Guns are illegal in the Cayman Islands.

    You'd think in a tiny country surrounded by water that it would be very hard for criminals to get their hands on illegal guns.

    Turns out, they are the only people who have them...and they use them too.

    http://www.cayman27.com.ky/2011/09/2...ry-other-night

    If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns..Imagine that.

  7. #124
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    Apr 2009
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    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by cool-in-cayman View Post
    Guns are illegal in the Cayman Islands.

    You'd think in a tiny country surrounded by water that it would be very hard for criminals to get their hands on illegal guns.

    Turns out, they are the only people who have them...and they use them too.

    http://www.cayman27.com.ky/2011/09/2...ry-other-night

    If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns..Imagine that.
    What the anti-gun people refuse to recognize is the fact that every time a community or state makes it easier for law abiding citizens to own and carry guns, the crime rate drops considerably.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  8. #125
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,190
    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    And what is the point of cops having guns if the bullets just bounce off like the man of steel? Just gave the reasoning for the law up here, as I said, the only civilians here that need to wear it (other than cops and security guards) are the ones that want to behave in a way that attracts bullets.

    As far as being anti-weapon. I sure do have some pretty ones.
    if the bullets just bounce off like the man of steel?
    your kidding right? ever talk to someone that has been shot with body armor on. There is BulletPROOF and bulletRESISTANT

    There are four levels of protection, as follows: From Global Security dot org


    Type I (.22 LR; .380 ACP). This armor protects against .22 long rifle lead round nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less, and against .380 ACP full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN), with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. Type I body armor is light. This is the minimum level of protection every officer should have, and the armor should be routinely worn at all times while on duty. Type I body armor was the armor issued during the NIJ demonstration project in the mid-1970s. Most agencies today, however, because of increasing threats, opt for a higher level of protection.

    Type II-A (9mm; .40 S&W). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 332 m/s (1090 ft/s) or less, and .40 S&W caliber full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets, with nominal masses of 11.7 g (180 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I threats. Type II-A body armor is well suited for full-time use by police departments, particularly those seeking protection for their officers from lower velocity 9mm and 40 S&W ammunition.

    Type II (9mm; .357 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 358 m/s (1175 ft/s) or less, and .357 Magnum jacketed soft point (JSP) bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I and Type IIA threats. Type II body armor is heavier and more bulky than either Types I or II-A. It is worn full time by officers seeking protection against higher velocity .357 Magnum and 9mm ammunition.

    Type III-A (High Velocity 9mm; .44 Magnum). This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FJM RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less, and .44 Magnum jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, with nominal masses of 15.6 g (240 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the Type I, II-A, and II threats. Type III-A body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available from concealable body armor and is generally suitable for routine wear in many situations. However, users located in hot, humid climates may need to evaluate the use of Type III-A armor carefully.

    Type III (Rifles). This armor protects against 7.62mm full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets (U.S. military designation M80), with nominal masses of 9.6 g (148 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 838 m/s (2750 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I through III-A threats. Type III body armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection, such as barricade confrontations involving sporting rifles.

    Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle). This armor protects against .30 caliber armor piercing (AP) bullets (U.S. military designation M2 AP), with nominal masses of 10.8 g (166 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 869 m/s (2850 ft/s) or less. It also provides at least single-hit protection against the Type I through III threats. Type IV body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available. Because this armor is intended to resist "armor piercing" bullets, it often uses ceramic materials. Such materials are brittle in nature and may provide only single-shot protection, since the ceramic tends to break up when struck. As with Type III armor, Type IV armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection.

    Bulletproof and bullet resistant vests NIJ Flexible Level III & IV High Power Rifle Body Armor, are subject to the export licensing authority of the U.S. Department of State, Office of Defense Trade Controls.
    so choose your protection wisely
    BEING AN ADULT

    is the dumbest thing I have ever done

  9. #126
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,190
    this article makes a very compelling report:

    Why didn't ANYONE fight back???

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_Ja..._shooting.html
    BEING AN ADULT

    is the dumbest thing I have ever done

  10. #127
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    3,294
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Hehehe!...I wonder if Oprah blames a shovel for making her fat?
    I am not saying guns should be made illegal but the above comparison is silly because anything can move food into Oprah’s mouth. But what readily available device can blow a person brains out the back of their head from a distance by simply moving your index finger a quarter of an inch?

    There should be a limit on how easy man can kill another man, but I am not saying outlawing guns is the answer either. Maybe outlawing assault rifles is a first step? But it is the NRA’s stance to never give an inch.

    If we had the capability to think someone to death should it be made legal? Because guns are very similar to that.

  11. #128
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,297
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    I am not saying guns should be made illegal but the above comparison is silly because anything can move food into Oprah’s mouth. But what readily available device can blow a person brains out the back of their head from a distance by simply moving your index finger a quarter of an inch?

    There should be a limit on how easy man can kill another man, but I am not saying outlawing guns is the answer either. Maybe outlawing assault rifles is a first step? But it is the NRA’s stance to never give an inch.

    If we had the capability to think someone to death should it be made legal? Because guns are very similar to that.
    What do you consider an "assault rifle"? That is a name and classification invented by the anti-gun people to serve their political purposes.

    I happen to hunt with one of those so called "assault rifles" as do many thousands of other americans. I also own other rifles that the liberal anti-gun people do not consider an assault rifle and those other rifles fire the same rounds at the same rate. The anti-gun crowd and most politicians have no real firearm knowledge and the media has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to firearm knowledge. All they know is they want all guns regulated and of course the bad guys don't follow regulations in the first place.

    So all anti-gun regulations do is declaw the cat so it can't defend itself against the pit bull.
    "No matter how thirsty your imagination, mirages contain no water"

  12. #129
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh B View Post
    The anti-gun crowd and most politicians have no real firearm knowledge and the media has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to firearm knowledge. All they know is they want all guns regulated and of course the bad guys don't follow regulations in the first place.

    So all anti-gun regulations do is declaw the cat so it can't defend itself against the pit bull.
    Great point. The suspect in this case according to reports has I think it was 2 handguns, a shotgun and an "assault rifle". Against unarmed, unarmoured victums from a short range, without anyone returning fire, does it really matter that much what type of gun he had? I guess you could argue that a semi-automatic rifle lays down more rounds and cna penetrate soft objects like walls and chairs. A good marksman with a handgun can probably do just as much damage.

    And as mentioned, bad guys don't follow legal channels for weapons purchases. The guy cold have just as easily thrown a 4 or 5 bundles of exposives into the crowd and walked out too or walked into the middle of the aisle and blown himself up.

  13. #130
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    this article makes a very compelling report:

    Why didn't ANYONE fight back???

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_Ja..._shooting.html
    I would like ot see more details. Ther were at least 2 service members killed. It's not clear if anyone did attempt to fight back and was killed. Also consider the situation and social dynamics. I woudl venture ot say that most of the movigoers wre with a friend, date or family member. Would you abandon them and attempt a potentially suicide assault, or try and guide them to safety.

    Consider that a theater is a large room, it woudl seem reasonable that you mgith be able in a large crowd to beat the odds and make it to a exit. In a smaller space, like an airplane or classroom, you are more cornered.

    It's dark, and the suspect has good visbility of the entire room from up front and may have had the bright screen shining behind him making his movement difficult to make out.

    Trying to put together a plan to attack the individual that no moving in a location where it's hard to outflank them without the ability to easily coordinate an assult with more than one individual seems tricky to me. I think a rational person might have figured their best bet was to stay hidden behind the chairs and wait for back-up.

    Consider this, in a filled to capacity theater with maybe 300 people only 20 or so probably have the right personality type to fight back. 1/2 of them would be in the back 1/2 of the theater and out of reasonable range ot respond. 1/2 of the remaining 10 might have already had someone they knew shot and were attending to them, or focused on trying to protect them. So that leave 4 or 5 that might reasonably be able to fight back.

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