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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, Az.
    Posts
    32

    Hoshizaki Problems

    I got my butt kicked by a KM-1300SAF today. I'm a 6 year hvac tech with no experience on ice machines. The board had been going into a 3 beep alarm. I checked the FS, water inlet solenoid, and check valve, all seemed okay. I was getting tech support from a guy who told me to change the hot gas valve. After doing that I started it up and was running a high head pressure. I had already sprayed the coil out with nitrogen as much as I could until the people in the store yelled at me, than I pulled the fan and brushed the rest out. My pressures(404A) five minutes into the freeze cycle were 325 and 59 with 83 degree incoming water and 82 degree ambient air. 35 minutes into the freeze cycle my pressures were ranging from 300-310 high and 41-45 low. The machined limped out a freeze cycle in 50 minutes.

    I'm wondering if anybody can give me some tips about checking txv's, hot gas valves, and water solenoids for leaks. I'm also thinking the condenser coil could have been a little cleaner. Does anybody have any tips for cleaning a condenser coil without spraying dust over everything? If I spray it with water the water will leak everywhere and the coil housing is so tight I doubt a shop vac could reach everything.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Peoria IL
    Posts
    72
    Its hot the water temp is warm ambient air is warm and with the 3 beeps your running close to the freeze timer 2 loads of ice hits a 60 min cycles it will trip, biggest problems with km's is they need to be clean and they need the proper water volume to meet the fill and flush timer and they like to leak water by the water valve when its in freeze mode check the drain to make sure water isnt leaking by the water valve warm water = longer freeze times low ice production

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Peoria IL
    Posts
    72
    here is a good read there is some good info how to do quick check ect

    http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/manu..._H(3)_serv.pdf

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,790
    If you use a wet towel on either side of the condenser it will catch most of the dust if you have to blow it out still.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Burlington , Mass
    Posts
    470
    I always wet the condensor before blowing it out
    I'll be there when I get there and not a minute later

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,639
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    If you use a wet towel on either side of the condenser it will catch most of the dust if you have to blow it out still.
    If it's in a kitchen, just take a hose to it. Bin's probably empty anyway. You may even have to pull the motor and hit the coil with degreaser.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    1,157
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    If you use a wet towel on either side of the condenser it will catch most of the dust if you have to blow it out still.
    This is what I do.. Old sheets cut up works good too.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, Az.
    Posts
    32
    thanks for the tips, I'll try that next time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    17
    I alway take the side pad out and take a fan blade out and spray with nu-clan the blue one without mix with the water , and clean out with a hot water and blow with co2 .I know it will take forever but if you work in the Chinese or any Asian food you will know what I am I taking about ,good luck

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,790
    Quote Originally Posted by skrewdriver View Post
    thanks for the tips, I'll try that next time.
    Your pressures seem spot on from what the book says. Going out to 50 min in freeze might be something other than the condenser coil
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,886
    After it fills with water close the isolation valve for the water inlet(before the solenoid valve) and see what happens. It might be leaking by. When you unplugged the FS did it go into harvest? I do not think your hot gas valve is the problem. So a few things left to check. The LL drier or the solenoid valve are they frosting/sweating? The water valve(see above). The expansion valve? Is the inlet of the evap have frost on it then it goes away?
    Not what it use to be

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Savannah Ga.
    Posts
    41
    Is the water distribution system clean? Make sure evey row of every evap. is getting water flow to make cubes.....Hoshizaki brings in "X" amount of water (enough for one batch of ice) at the beginning of the cycle and when the float switch tells the control board the water water level has dropped to "Y" level, the board sends the machine into harvest. Therefore, if extra water enters the sump during the cycle, you get long cycles....or, if let's say 6 rows of evap. surface don't make cubes because the water distribution tubes are clogged, then the rows that did get water and made cubes will have to make much larger cubes to deplete the water that should have been made into cubes on the missing rows. You are not going to enter harvest until that water level gets to a certain point. The cycle time will be extended in this scenario due to the ice cube on the evap actually acts as an insulator between the evap and the water you are trying to freeze.
    On another note, we have seen a fair number of aging control boards cause a 3 beep error code the last couple of years. You have to really get lucky to catch the problem when it occurs, but what we've been seeing is the board will intermittantly drop power to certain loads during the freeze cycle....usually the water pump or the contactor, either of which will give you your 3 beeps if they stay de-energized long enough. What we have started doing with some of these, is changing out the board and waiting to see if the problem recurs. Usually we'll establish a pattern as to how frequently it is happening first, and then change the board and give it "X" amount of time and if it doesn't act up within that time we'll write a bill and consider it done. I hate a "parts changing" mentality towards diagnosing but sometimes you have to do what you have to do!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Independence
    Posts
    197

    Thumbs up I <3 KM

    Id agree you could probably use a good evaporator cleaning.
    aside from just running the chemical(hoshi is Stainless Steel) through the clean cycle for 45 min or so you should also unhook the rubber tubes from the top rails, and slide those white plastic header pieces out to clean them, then take the top off and get the hose and spray down the evaporator tracks.
    of course you have to take out all the ice to do this.
    even with a 90 degree ambient you should not have more than a 40 min freeze time, more like 35 at 80 degrees.

    http://www.hoshizakiamerica.com/tech...R404Aguide.pdf
    p.97 has the spec chart for your km1300 air cooled.

    for the most part you can verify the hot gas valve (or cool vapor valve if your picky) is not stuck open just by taking the temp on either side of it, if its hot on both sides, its leaking past. and you can still measure the superheat just like an airconditioner, and the txv ought to be holding it around 10-15 degrees. if you see that then your valve is OK.

    likewise it also has a liquid line solenoid valve which could be partially stuck maybe, check temp on either side, if there is no TD then its ok.

    I'd do the full cleaning of the evaporator water circuit before id go tearing into the sealed system.
    The average person has one testicle, and one ovary.

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