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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Lake Ronkonkoma, New York
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    531
    Quote Originally Posted by drkglass01 View Post
    It makes me wonder, check my criminal record, check my driving record, check my urine and get a company physical... oh, and we need to make sure you can afford that new camaro you are driving.

    We are also giving you this new iphone ! Make sure not to disable the GPS, we will know.
    I don't know how much longer my credit will be good. I've been putting my college costs on my credit card and just took out a 3,000 loan to get my teeth fixed. Won't matter what my gpa is if I can't smile on an interview. As far as the gps issue goes, I don't have a problem leaving it on but the Iphone would never leave the cab of my service van.
    If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    58
    It is shameful to say, but the internet; FICO; and other "quick check" sites have created a new permanently unemployed underclass in this country. I went through hard times, big expenses due to kids, 2 cataract surgeries(so I could read my indicators and drive) and my FICO suffered for a couple of years. I feel blessed that everyone in my particular segment of the biz knows me or has heard of me, and I dont have to put up with that mess. I have to take as many as 5 drug tests a year. Several background checks. When is enough, enough.

    I can see some employers point though. FICO is an easy tool to judge trustworthiness, or so they think. Just as the Mortgage bankers are finding out, a good or bad FICO is no substitute for doing one's homework and not relying on something as unreliable as FICO. In Texas garnishment orders are not a problem, unless for taxes or Child support, creditors cannot get them.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Winter Haven, FL
    Posts
    4,364
    Credit check is bizzare in my book. Its like Dave Ramsey says; fico is an "i love debt score". My credit score is crap. The last loan i had was in 2002. I paid it off in 2004. I dont use credit cards and owe no money to anyone. I have a 395. My brother is 75k in debt from school, and makes 30k a year. He has a 740. He could go out and buy a brand new car with no money down. The dealership wants 50% down, and the rest at 17.4% from me. Go figure......

    But my brother was applying for a job at a marketing firm. In the middle of the is the process, he had cancelled a credit card that's the interest rate went up on. His credit report got flagged, and he was denied a job because of it. His job did not Involve the handling of any money..

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    18,260
    Quote Originally Posted by sprmktrefertech View Post
    I've been reading posts on job requirements upon getting hired.

    Clean driving record, good communication skills and so on....

    Does anybody know why my financial records are used... I feel that, when is enough, enough.


    lets say, Does having bad credit somehow make me a lesser tech?
    Just throwing it out there.

    What do you guys think?
    I have not read the two pages of responses, so ignore any duplication of explanations.

    Let's answer your question, first.

    Does bad credit make you a "lesser tech?"

    Probably not.

    However, that is NOT the only consideration.

    The current thinking in the business world, including insurability by the way, is that thinking and behavior leads to a particular credit standing.

    The credit rating you have is mostly based on choices that YOU control. Sometimes things happen that are out of your control. When 9-11 happened, things at my flight school ground to a halt, and nearly every instructor went from a meager income to a zero income. Flight instruction has never recovered. In fact, many of the professionals who owned airplanes and were working on more advanced flight ratings have sold their airplanes, and fewer students want to fly for fun. That leaves the pilot mills for regional commuter airline hopefuls to want to fly for Delta someday.

    As a result, most instructors and many other working pilots had horrible credit. I did, too. The event that ruined aviation for a time is well known by EVERY type of employer, so for most of us, our bad credit was understood to be a result of things outside of our control. I worked hard to restore my credit over the past 12 years, and now, it is pristine. It took a lot of work and sacrifice.

    So, a good credit rating speaks to that hard work and sacrifice, and employers know this, too.

    So, if your bad credit can be clearly linked to things outside of your control, then so be it. Many future employers WILL understand that dynamic.

    However, most bad credit is NOT due to outside variables, and instead, it is due to overspending, failure to live within your means, court actions, etc. Those things are more representative of what potential employers view as flaws in one's character, and suggest that the decisions made as an employee might not be good decisions, and there may even be a temptation to steal from customers, if a rationale exists regarding feeding your children, a sense of entitlement, etc.

    Those are not good things.

    The good news is that time is the cure for bad credit, and you need to get good advice from professionals on that count.

    Does that help give you a better idea of the employment landscape regarding credit?
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago area
    Posts
    1,439
    There are 2 issues I have with this approach to risk management.

    1 - This is an approach for a lazy employer. All you really need to do is ask questions in an interview to get a feel of character. I personally will not work for a lazy company.

    2 - There is no one outside the rating agency that knows what the formula for good credit. It is an arbitrary system that does not relate at all to whether or not someone pays bills. A friend of mine has filed for bankruptcy 3 times, and has better credit then I do. I've had many loans and never missed a payment.

    I had a motorcycle loan through GE financial, who's credit dept. shut down all loans causing that loan to look like a default, even though I paid the bike off in full.

    My point is this, if a company is going to wager on the accuracy of a flawed system, then have at it. You will never get real talent in the company.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatingman View Post
    There are 2 issues I have with this approach to risk management.

    1 - This is an approach for a lazy employer. All you really need to do is ask questions in an interview to get a feel of character. I personally will not work for a lazy company.

    Actually, this is being taught in the top schools like Wharton and NYU, and within the HR departments of the Fortune top 500 corporations. It is being taught because it is on balance, an effective means of divining character traits, along with the traditional DISC testing.


    2 - There is no one outside the rating agency that knows what the formula for good credit. It is an arbitrary system that does not relate at all to whether or not someone pays bills. A friend of mine has filed for bankruptcy 3 times, and has better credit then I do. I've had many loans and never missed a payment.

    While the rating formulae ARE indeed secret, they are secret to maintain the integrity of the system. Allowing folks to know "which buttons to press" would invalidate the results.

    It sounds as though you need to sit down with a credit counselor, and discover WHY your credit score is lower than your friend's.

    I had a motorcycle loan through GE financial, who's credit dept. shut down all loans causing that loan to look like a default, even though I paid the bike off in full.

    You can dispute items on your report, and add a letter to your report explaining entries.

    My point is this, if a company is going to wager on the accuracy of a flawed system, then have at it. You will never get real talent in the company.
    Every system devised by man is flawed. This is a good system, all things considered.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  7. #46
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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago area
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Every system devised by man is flawed. This is a good system, all things considered.
    While I understand your point of view/argument, it does not change the fact that checking credit is a lazy and absurd means of judging a man.

    Just because they teach this method at some hotshot school does not make it a valid approach. It's no more valid then saying that carrots kill people, just because everyone that is dead ate a carrot at some point.

    If you want to test someone knowledge give them a written test, to test applied skills, have them fix a furnace or what have you in the shop.

    If you wish to measure a mans character, ask him questions about his hobbies, or how he spends his free time. Essentially just talk to him, and trust your gut.

    Your gut will give you just as accurate of a measure as a credit score.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    Some places won't hire you if you have facial hair.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a criminal record.

    Some places won't hire you if you have visible tattoos/piercings.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a bad driving record.

    Some places won't hire you if you smoke, dip, or chew.

    Some places won't hire you if you change jobs frequently.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a bad credit score.

    Get over it. You wanna make the rules, start your own company.

    If you don't like the hiring practices of a given company, move along. They have their standards, and you don't meet them.

    Simple as that.
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  9. #48
    Hi

    I found that a member asked same question in this forum some months ago.

    Pls use search box to find this questions with comments

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denver/Boulder
    Posts
    2,219
    Just some thoughts to you guys. There's nothing wrong in asking the question. Nothing at all.


    When it comes to credit reports, peeing in a bottle, driving records, etc.- John is right. We have turned into a world of metrics. You might say that we've traded some types of discrimination (race, religion, gender) for others (criminal, civil, driving, credit records & databases)

    Everything John M and timebuilder said is true. Especially the part about every system devised by man being imperfect.

    While I understand how you rail against somebody crawling up your butt, you should understand that the same thing happens to us business owners on a semi-regular basis. BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THIS!! I had NO IDEA what I was in for when I hung out my shingle almost eight years ago.

    Federal

    EPA & DOE
    DOL
    IRS & Treasury

    State

    Sec of State
    DOR (Revenue) -Income,sales, use taxes. Vehicle taxes & fees too.
    Department of Public Health and Environment- Refrigerant management
    Department of Public Health and Environment -Water Quality Control Division
    DOL (labor)




    County

    Building dept(s)
    County environmental affairs enforcement


    cities

    City environmental affairs enforcement
    City building departments- each city has it's own contractor licensing programs with separate regulations, requirements, and fees in colorado, unlike some other states.
    Local Taxing authority- In colorado, certain cities are allowed to have tax rates and structures outside of the state system of uniform collection and reporting.

    Example- in the city of Boulder, it is required that when a business provides something of taxable value to a consumer without charging them, the business must either pay the tax that would be collected for the sale of that same item to the city(but not to the state or county) or collect that amount from the consumer, to be paid to the city.

    PURE P.I.T.A.

    Guess how many bagel or doughnut shops give away free coffee on their slow days...


    O know I'm boring you to death by now (sorry) but I didn't see another way of explaining to you how much crap a employer has to do just to be in business, and I haven't even got to the private/Quasi-private institutions we have to deal with-

    Insurance (liability, employee bonding, unemployment,workmans comp,vehicle, building, umbrella, health)
    Industry certifications
    Distributors
    Banks

    Guess what all those groups/agencies/businesses are doing?

    That's right. They look us up in databases and such. They crawl up our butts. Don't think for a second that they don't. Almost none of this stuff happens on a handshake anymore. It's like John said- do the numbers look good or not. That and some day when something goes wrong, and it will- the lawyer asking the questions will want to know why I didn't check this or that, or why I didn't require you to pee in a cup.

    One final thought.

    While an employer might be looking out for themselves first and foremost, they are also looking out for their customers, or at least the ones that hire lawyers, and their other employees. Bad employees don't just cause problems for the owner and the business, they affect customers and coworkers too. The tool they steal might be yours. The business they bring to it's knees might be the one you work for.

    If you made it this far, thanks for sticking it out with me.

    I hope that helps. I get your frustration. I get your point, but sometimes things don't roll the way you want them to.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.


    Two pressures, four temperatures = SUCCESS!


    Boulder Heating Contractor


    For Consumers:

    For HVACR Professionals:


  11. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago area
    Posts
    1,439
    Quote Originally Posted by John Markl View Post
    Some places won't hire you if you have facial hair.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a criminal record.

    Some places won't hire you if you have visible tattoos/piercings.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a bad driving record.

    Some places won't hire you if you smoke, dip, or chew.

    Some places won't hire you if you change jobs frequently.

    Some places won't hire you if you have a bad credit score.

    Get over it. You wanna make the rules, start your own company.

    If you don't like the hiring practices of a given company, move along. They have their standards, and you don't meet them.

    Simple as that.
    I have no problem with a company wanting to do a credit check. They can have at it. I just don't think the metric is valid.
    I feel that every item you listed other then the credit check has valid reasoning behind it and a clear cause and effect. If you have speeding tickets, your a speeder. Tatoos and facial hair, old folks may not feel comfortable. If you fail the wiz quiz, you do drugs. Etc... that is all strait forward.

    The problem with a credit score is that there is no clear cause and effect. It's a game that they change the rules in the middle of the play. They make it up as they go.

    Imagine if a driving record was gleaned in the same unknown way. Would it not be absurd that someone that has gotten 15 speeding tickets and a few accidents in the least 2 years has a better record then someone who has n speeding tickets or accidents, because the guy with speeding tickets has fallen into some asinine loop hole?

    Yes it would be absurd.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
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    Actually, the ONLY reason employers use credit as a hiring tool is the same reason it is being taught in business school.

    That reason is "validity."

    It has been shown to be a surprisingly accuate indicator of expected behavior, based on a behavior history. A credit report IS an historical record of financial activity. When you improve that record over time, it indicates that you are in a process of learning to make better decisions, and decisions are what life is all about.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  13. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,728
    Plain and simple,A person who has no money has less to loose.When you have something to loose It makes a big difference in your actions!

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