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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Beatrice, NE
    Posts
    1,989
    First off you should knkow that Payne is made by Carrier, so if you hate your Payne what makes you think you will love your Carrier. Just askin.

    Second, the load calc said 4 ton. Will the duct handle 4 ton? Does thier bid include duct renovation?

    Third as asked before, Did your present unit keep you comfortable? Have you done your own measurments to see if the first co. measured properly, or did they round everything up? This can make a difference on the load, and you did question the sq. footage they came up with. If they included the loft is there proper sized duct going to the loft?

    I can't say as I blame the company for not wanting to give you the full report on the load calc, but I would have thought they would have shown you it.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Monroe, LA
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorkMinute View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by cooling properly. Since we have two story ceilings in some areas and an open floor plan, I'm not sure if we can do better.

    I was able to get the a/c down to 68 if I wanted when it was working properly but I don't remember if it ran all day to maintain. I do remember being cold and I remember setting the upstairs temp at 69 or 70 and it being able to maintain it.

    I did not make a habit of setting the temp "under" 70. I only did it a few times if I had been out jogging and was over heated. Normally we would have it set at 70- 72. Now I have it at 74 and its working because the service guy was here and saw the TXV was 3/4 way closed so he tapped on it and got it open.

    We do have one room that never gets quite as cool as the rest of the house but all three companies told me that putting in a new system would not change that much it has to do with the duct work (I think he said that) but either way I understand.
    Ok let's make this a little simpler. Which company looked at the problems with that one area in your home that is not comfortable? Did they come up with a solution to fix this problem area? That is the Company you want. As they all stated changing the system out will not correct this problem!


    So my question to them would be what needs to be done to fix this. This a problem that you are concerned with and needs to be looked at a estimate/option to repair, replace or fix this area is needed. Ductwork work is have the system and needs to be reviewed over! Also don't let anyone tell you to oversize the system to fix this as it more then likely want could even make worse!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,847
    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    I think your 4 ton guy did a dog and pony show for you! You can maintain your home at 72* with a 3 ton but now you need a 4 ton?
    +1
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,847
    Quote Originally Posted by kls-ccc View Post
    I can't say as I blame the company for not wanting to give you the full report on the load calc, but I would have thought they would have shown you it.
    What, maybe just a quick upside down look?
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    So all of them should still work up a quote with a LC even if they don't get the job? Is that because it's the right thing to do? or is that because it's what you do and you think everyone else should also?
    We do it because it sells jobs for us! I'm told time after time by the customer they went with us because we were more thorough and professional than the rest of the competitors.
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    suburbs outside New York City
    Posts
    71
    OK, someone misunderstood me here. Not "everyone did a load calculation one one!! It is now narrowed down between them and another company. The second company did the original installation.

    Now that the first company came back and told me our 3 ton is undersized and we need 4 ton and that could mean changing pipes and going into the wall etc how in the world can we accept the second companies proposal when they didn't do a load calculation and they recommended replacing our unit with the same 3 ton.

    We bought the home while being build and the model we bought did not include and option loft with skylights, expanded upstairs hall with open walls on each side. This was an option that the builder offered after several of our particular models were already built. We think he later offered the attic space conversion to a loft and the things I mentioned above and never took into consideration how this "new" option would affect the current a/c heating.

    Even though the second proposal is from the company that did all of the installations and put in our current 3 ton condenser, I told them that the first company said it was undersized. This is why I want the second company go to in here and calculate the load and provide with an accurate proposal.

    As I said, its not all about money for us. Its getting a great installation and the "correct" configuration for our home

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,847
    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    We do it because it sells jobs for us! I'm told time after time by the customer they went with us because we were more thorough and professional than the rest of the competitors.
    And you know what? in the real world this should be how things work, but in my past 30 years of dealing with tire kickers, I just tell the customer to text me the model and serials off their equipment and I will text them a price.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,334
    Let me put it this way. If your 3 ton can maintain your home at 72* its not undersized, but its sure to be oversized with a 4 ton!
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Gold Coast of Connecticut
    Posts
    4,570
    If you were able to maintain indoor comfort with 3.0 tons ne need to over size your unit. More is not better.
    Aire Serv of SW Connecticut- Gas heat, dual fuel and central a/c systems installed and serviced

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,847
    Quote Originally Posted by Freezeking2000 View Post
    More is not better.
    Only in our wife's minds and our paychecks.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    And you know what? in the real world this should be how things work, but in my past 30 years of dealing with tire kickers, I just tell the customer to text me the model and serials off their equipment and I will text them a price.
    LOL Oh I hear ya, loud and clear!

    But i got you on the 30 years, I've put up with it for 42 years.
    Make your expertise uniquely valuable.

    Make your influence uniquely far-reaching.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    suburbs outside New York City
    Posts
    71
    jimj: You are 100% correct!!! The company that is the most professional and does their homework i.e. gets the business. If the second company won't come in and do the load calculation - they are out!! Because something is very wrong, at least in our situation, if we have a 3 ton and it should be a 4 ton.

    Mr. Bill: we don't operate the way your customers do. I'm happy to say that we are financially stable enough to be able to make a decision that is based on quality installation, reputation, professionalism, the correct configuration and "not" just who is offering us the best price.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,847
    Quote Originally Posted by NewYorkMinute View Post
    Mr. Bill: we don't operate the way your customers do. I'm happy to say that we are financially stable enough to be able to make a decision that is based on quality installation, reputation, professionalism, the correct configuration and "not" just who is offering us the best price.
    Now you really had me encouraged with your wisdom, now please don't tell me you really believe this below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    And you know what? in the real world this should be how things work, but in my past 30 years of dealing with tire kickers, I just tell the customer to text me the model and serials off their equipment and I will text them a price.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

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