Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 14 to 24 of 24
  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    2,672
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well space we haven't had a real "American" President since Regan in my opinion. However be that as it may we can either choose communism in this election, treading water or throwing your vote away and allowing a communist get elected and believe me you haven't seen nothing yet if he gets another chance of 4 years.

    It will be national suicide. I of course will choose treading water. I always vote conservative when given the choice and against the communist or most left wing candidate when I don't have one a conservative to vote for. What you say about what we have been getting is correct but I can't of course agree with allowing a communist to get elected because I want to stand on my principle. Thank you, thank you very much
    We're not just talking about the president, or voting in the next election; we're talking about establishing a viable third party, so that it will be possible to vote for the best man without fear of throwing the election. Did you drop your reading glasses in your beer again?

    This isn't about poverty, or immigration, or bad employers. It's about a government that is no longer accountable or responsible.

    Watch the video. It's only five minutes long.
    http://www.dickmorris.com/today-is-b...history-video/
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    We're not just talking about the president, or voting in the next election; we're talking about establishing a viable third party, so that it will be possible to vote for the best man without fear of throwing the election. Did you drop your reading glasses in your beer again?

    This isn't about poverty, or immigration, or bad employers. It's about a government that is no longer accountable or responsible.

    Watch the video. It's only five minutes long.
    http://www.dickmorris.com/today-is-b...history-video/
    A viable third party? It would be no different than the other two parties. They would just be humans like the rest of them and quickly evolve and sell out to the higest bidder, or where they think they could get the most votes and gain power. Even more gridlock would be created. Thinking that some magical third party is the answer with some all of a sudden perfect people running it, is at best an idealistic pipe dream. What would be better IMO is a "No party" system, where we just voted for the best person for the job. But the established parties have too much money hence power for that to happen in any meaninigful way. So for the foreseeable future two party will have to do.

  3. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    They aren't doing it to us, we are!

    We act like battered wives.
    Amen...
    (The wise men of modern thought) adore a god made of putty or of wax - plastic, effeminate, molluscous, with no masculine faculty about him, and no quality that entitles him to the respect of just and honest men, for a being who cannot be angry at wrongdoing is destitute of one of the essential virtues, and a moral Ruler who is not angry with the wicked, and who refuses to punish crime, is not divine. ---Spurgeon

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    2,672
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    A viable third party? It would be no different than the other two parties. They would just be humans like the rest of them and quickly evolve and sell out to the higest bidder, or where they think they could get the most votes and gain power. Even more gridlock would be created. Thinking that some magical third party is the answer with some all of a sudden perfect people running it, is at best an idealistic pipe dream. What would be better IMO is a "No party" system, where we just voted for the best person for the job. But the established parties have too much money hence power for that to happen in any meaninigful way. So for the foreseeable future two party will have to do.
    Why do you assume the worst of a party that doesn't even exist? Are you that much of a pessimist? Are you a successful businessman?

    Do you vote?

    The Democratic Party took 180 years to become what it is today; the Republican 160. The Republican Party came into existence because its members disagreed with Democrats. It wanted to discourage the spread of slavery and modernize the economy. Six years after its formation, it put Lincoln in power. Do you think the Republican Party was the dysfunctional organization then that is is now?

    Do you think the Tea Partiers who were recently elected to Congress behave like their predecessors?

    A new third party could only succeed if it contrasted itself with the failings of our existing parties and if it had goals that made sense to a sizable plurality. Without these, it could never hope do develop much influence in the American political world.

    Two of the reasons our two parties are failing are because they have many of the same priorities, regardless of their political differences, and becauses their "club" membership is more important to them than their constitutional responsibilities. A successful third party would introduce competition, which is the last thing they want, and force them to make some efficient, effective decisions. The third party would not have to win every argument; it would effect the outcome of many arguments merely by its presence.

    With the advent and development of the internet, the growth of new grass roots organizations, and the obvious reduction in support garnered by the D's and R's, there is an opportunity for a new third party to come onto the scene and have a positive impact. Its chances of success could be unlike anything seen in American politics since the advent of the radio.

    Eventually, without safeguards, the third party could devolve and end up just like the other two. But if it had some by-laws which spelled out a few basic, permanent principles, not subject to change, it could keep a competitive edge. By keeping parties competitive, it could even lead to the dissolution of the party system after several decades.
    Last edited by Space Racer; 08-02-2012 at 11:48 AM.
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,766
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    A viable third party? It would be no different than the other two parties. They would just be humans like the rest of them and quickly evolve and sell out to the higest bidder, or where they think they could get the most votes and gain power. Even more gridlock would be created. Thinking that some magical third party is the answer with some all of a sudden perfect people running it, is at best an idealistic pipe dream. What would be better IMO is a "No party" system, where we just voted for the best person for the job. But the established parties have too much money hence power for that to happen in any meaninigful way. So for the foreseeable future two party will have to do.
    This idea is similar to a society thinking that electing that one person to POTUS will solve everything... wonder where that attitude comes from??? Good question...

    Perhaps when the God of the Judeo/Christian Bible sent his Son Jesus Christ to be our Savior... just perhaps that God understood that humans are prone to look for a savior dude (dudette for you feminists). Well, after all; Scripture says that same God created humanity... ya think HE understands how we think and function? DUH

    You see, we all tend to think someone can 'fix' things for us... that is believing in a savior. We (well perhaps not some of us on this forum) elected BHO with that intention. The REAL salvation (being saved) is not about this world's system... rather about cleaning out the crap in my own head. Yeah, I know... nobody wants to do that... (whoops).

    Looking for a human savior is kinda like p*ssing into the wind... it will come back on you EVERY time.

    BTW: Just for the record: I do NOT think Mutt Romney is a savior... I only see him as a lesser of two evils. Yeah, that is not idealistic... however it is a H*LL of a lot better than another 4 years of BHO. Simple decision to me. And since there is NO record in the USA of a 3rd party candidate EVER getting elected to POTUS when there were two strong viable parties... then it is CLEAR that voting for a third party candidate is wasting one's vote.

    The IMPORTANT thing this fall is to get the current folks OUT of office. The choices may not be that great... but moving in the right direction is better than doing nothing and by default being dragged in the wrong direction.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    Why do you assume the worst of a party that doesn't even exist? Are you that much of a pessimist? Are you a successful businessman?

    Do you vote?

    The Democratic Party took 180 years to become what it is today; the Republican 160. The Republican Party came into existence because its members disagreed with Democrats. It wanted to discourage the spread of slavery and modernize the economy. Six years after its formation, it put Lincoln in power. Do you think the Republican Party was the dysfunctional organization then that is is now?

    Do you think the Tea Partiers who were recently elected to Congress behave like their predecessors?

    A new third party could only succeed if it contrasted itself with the failings of our existing parties and if it had goals that made sense to a sizable plurality. Without these, it could never hope do develop much influence in the American political world.

    Two of the reasons our two parties are failing are because they have many of the same priorities, regardless of their political differences, and becauses their "club" membership is more important to them than their constitutional responsibilities. A successful third party would introduce competition, which is the last thing they want, and force them to make some efficient, effective decisions. The third party would not have to win every argument; it would effect the outcome of many arguments merely by its presence.

    With the advent and development of the internet, the growth of new grass roots organizations, and the obvious reduction in support garnered by the D's and R's, there is an opportunity for a new third party to come onto the scene and have a positive impact. Its chances of success could be unlike anything seen in American politics since the advent of the radio.

    Eventually, without safeguards, the third party could devolve and end up just like the other two. But if it had some by-laws which spelled out a few basic, permanent principles, not subject to change, it could keep a competitive edge. By keeping parties competitive, it could even lead to the dissolution of the party system after several decades.
    The Civil War was NOT about slavery... it was about Northern Bankers screwing Southern businessmen. As usual, history is not understood.

    The Republican party Ab Lincoln was elected from... was more about Banking interests than what was good for the citizens.

    IMO the way we clean up politics is to be INVOLVED every day. An involved person would literally read EVERY proposed law (bill presented to the house or senate) and send comments by Email to one's elected reps. Then when the reps come home for a town-hall meeting... HAMMER THEM ON WHAT THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Just electing a better person is only the first step.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    2,672
    Voting for one man won't solve anything. You have to vote for the senators and representatives, as well. And you have to know a little about the people you vote for.

    Most people who vote spend more time studying for their next appliance purchase than they do investigating congressional candidates.

    But Congress is the body that has messed us up. Bush and Obama are the frosting on the Congressional Cake.

    The press didn't even vet Obama before the election. It has covered up its own stupidity since 2008 by continuing to ignore Obama's background and his adolescent administration and by supporting him for reelection. The press has sold us down the river.

    Between a careless, uneducated public; an arrogant press; a devolving, aristocratic, selfish senate; a runaway banking system; and a belief in fairy tales, we have managed to stick ourselves with a useless Congress and a teenage social worker for a president. Yeah, we blame Obama and Bush, but we put them in power, and we put the people in power who made their candidacies possible.

    It's our own fault. We've been asleep at the switch for the last 50 years. We treat government elections like student council elections and homecoming court elections. Most of us don't want to be bothered.

    Don't just vote for a good president. Vote for a good senator. Vote for a good representative. And while you're at it, take a look at who is running for office in your state and local governments.

    And when you vote, don't just vote for the people who can keep the money flowing. Vote for the people who will keep the US economy alive for generations to come. Vote for the people who don't want to squander the livelihoods and careers of your grandchildren before they get a chance to earn them.

    Our elected officials have been battering us long enough. It's time for a divorce. It's time to find some new heads of household. It's time to find some certified financial planners. It's time to move on.
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    2,672
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    The Civil War was NOT about slavery... it was about Northern Bankers screwing Southern businessmen. As usual, history is not understood.

    The Republican party Ab Lincoln was elected from... was more about Banking interests than what was good for the citizens.

    IMO the way we clean up politics is to be INVOLVED every day. An involved person would literally read EVERY proposed law (bill presented to the house or senate) and send comments by Email to one's elected reps. Then when the reps come home for a town-hall meeting... HAMMER THEM ON WHAT THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Just electing a better person is only the first step.
    The reasons for the Civil War and the creation of the Republican Party are two different things. The Republican Party wanted to keep slavery from spreading to new states. But this was only one of the factors that led to the Civil War. It was not directly what caused southern states to secede, nor was it what caused confederates to fire on Fort Sumter.

    When I learned about the War Between the States, or the War of Northern Aggression, in my Military History class many years ago, I learned about many of the discussions and decisions made between 1820 and 1860. But I don't think I heard about the banking part. Got any sources handy?

    It would be nice if everyone were so involved, but Shirley you don't expect everyone to take time away from all their other responsibilities to read thousands of pages of proposals. They can barely find time to microwave a healthy meal, much less study the inner workings of government.
    Vacuum Technology:
    CRUD = Contamination Resulting in Undesirable Deposits.
    CRAPP = Contamination Resulting in Additional Partial Pressure.

    Change your vacuum pump oil now.

    Test. Testing, 1,2,3.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    Why do you assume the worst of a party that doesn't even exist?

    I assume they would be pretty much like everyone else in history.


    Are you that much of a pessimist?

    I consider myself more of a pragmatist.


    Are you a successful businessman?

    Most people would consider me a successful businessman.

    Do you vote?

    Usually.
    ,

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    The reasons for the Civil War and the creation of the Republican Party are two different things. The Republican Party wanted to keep slavery from spreading to new states. But this was only one of the factors that led to the Civil War. It was not directly what caused southern states to secede, nor was it what caused confederates to fire on Fort Sumter.

    When I learned about the War Between the States, or the War of Northern Aggression, in my Military History class many years ago, I learned about many of the discussions and decisions made between 1820 and 1860. But I don't think I heard about the banking part. Got any sources handy?

    It would be nice if everyone were so involved, but Shirley you don't expect everyone to take time away from all their other responsibilities to read thousands of pages of proposals. They can barely find time to microwave a healthy meal, much less study the inner workings of government.
    AS I remember reading years (decades) ago... the Northern Banking interests had something like a commodity market set up to handle Southern Cotton. I do not remember the details, however it was something like teh growers could not sell the cotton (it was exported from the USA) any other way than through the Northern bankers. The spread the bankers were getting between what they paid the growers and what they were paid was literally robbery. The South realized the ONLY way they could end this legalized robbery was to go it on their own.

    To answer your question above; Well, if we want to get control of the govt back... we had better MAKE the time to get involved. I personally read the entire Obamacare bill (what was posted online) long before it passed and became law. What we allowed Congress to push on us was literally hideous. I am sure if the majority of voters KNEW what was in that bill, they would have marched on Wash DC.

    As I noted above: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance; a quote from one of the signers of the founding documents. Now here is the question: Are we smarter than the founding fathers... or should we listen to their wisdom? To say I am too busy to keep tabs on govt is either lazy or thinking I do not need to... To realize I MUST keep tabs on govt if I want to avoid being taken down a road... well IMO that would just prove the signers of the founding documents understood some things we would be SMART to pay attention to.

    So which one do we do? Think we are too important to listen, or listen and heed the advise of wise men? (Because there are NO wise men in DC now-a-days).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,766
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    Voting for one man won't solve anything. You have to vote for the senators and representatives, as well. And you have to know a little about the people you vote for.

    Most people who vote spend more time studying for their next appliance purchase than they do investigating congressional candidates.

    But Congress is the body that has messed us up. Bush and Obama are the frosting on the Congressional Cake.

    The press didn't even vet Obama before the election. It has covered up its own stupidity since 2008 by continuing to ignore Obama's background and his adolescent administration and by supporting him for reelection. The press has sold us down the river.

    Between a careless, uneducated public; an arrogant press; a devolving, aristocratic, selfish senate; a runaway banking system; and a belief in fairy tales, we have managed to stick ourselves with a useless Congress and a teenage social worker for a president. Yeah, we blame Obama and Bush, but we put them in power, and we put the people in power who made their candidacies possible.

    It's our own fault. We've been asleep at the switch for the last 50 years. We treat government elections like student council elections and homecoming court elections. Most of us don't want to be bothered.

    Don't just vote for a good president. Vote for a good senator. Vote for a good representative. And while you're at it, take a look at who is running for office in your state and local governments.

    And when you vote, don't just vote for the people who can keep the money flowing. Vote for the people who will keep the US economy alive for generations to come. Vote for the people who don't want to squander the livelihoods and careers of your grandchildren before they get a chance to earn them.

    Our elected officials have been battering us long enough. It's time for a divorce. It's time to find some new heads of household. It's time to find some certified financial planners. It's time to move on.
    Good post!

    MeThinks folks are waking up... however lets see how far they go before they go back to being asleep at the wheel of keeping govt under their control.

    Voting is only one day every 2 years. The other 729 days we need to keep watch and harass the H*LL out of the folks we elected. Keep then in line, or they will run all over you, as they already have.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event