Brooklyn Row house needs new oil furnace

[genevievechrist]

I'm in an 1850s row house with new thermopane windows. THere are 4 floors and 3200 sf. There is no gas in the house and the chimneys are old. Would it be a better long term investment to line the chimney (I've been told $5000- $8000) and bring in gas or to get a highly efficient oil furnace. I've read some of the threads on Adams. With 98% efficiency Adams sounds appealing if -and a big if - I am bale to find an qualified installer and maintenance company. I'm in Brooklyn, NY but so far haven't come up with anyone. Any suggestions. Gen

[buttwheat]

Go with gas or heat pump. It may be a regional thing but I can't believe that anyone would even think of putting an oil furnace in.

[genevievechrist]

there's an oil furnace now, so this would be a replacement. It may not surprise you that the oil company is offering a free furnace - I would only pay for installation. I don't know about heat pumps any suggestions?

[throrope]

We're outside of Philly and I grew up with an oil hot water boiler. When we bought our new home two decades ago, gas heat and cooking was a non-negotiable prerequisite. After not dealing with the deliveries and similar nonsense, you'll never get oil again.

As to saving money, get last years oil bills and do as follows:

Old oil bill gallons x 138,500 btu per gallon = Old btus
Old btus / 80% old efficiency x 92% new efficiency = new btus (less than above)
New btus / 100,000 btu per therm = new therms

Now figure the cost of gas vs oil or $ per therm gas / $ per gallon oil x 138,000 btu per gallon / 100,000 btu per therm
For gas at $1 per therm and oil at $2.50 per gallon, gas costs 0.55 or 55% of oil.

Now multiply your old oil bill by the cost ratio of oil to natural gas to get your new gas bill. The difference between you oil bills and the new gas bills you put in your pocket.

If you burned 2,000 gallons oil at $2.50 per gallon for a $5,000 heating bill last winter you would spend $2,750 for gas at $1 per therm this winter for a savings of $2,250.

If the cost difference to go gas vs oil is plus five grand, 2-1/2 years from now you'd have a free gas furnace and then free airfare to Hawaii for you and wife every year thereafter.

Sounds like a no brainer in my humble opinion.

[jnsrose]

We're outside of Philly and I grew up with an oil hot water boiler. When we bought our new home two decades ago, gas heat and cooking was a non-negotiable prerequisite. After not dealing with the deliveries and similar nonsense, you'll never get oil again.

As to saving money, get last years oil bills and do as follows:

Old oil bill gallons x 138,500 btu per gallon = Old btus
Old btus / 80% old efficiency x 92% new efficiency = new btus (less than above)
New btus / 100,000 btu per therm = new therms

Now figure the cost of gas vs oil or $ per therm gas / $ per gallon oil x 138,000 btu per gallon / 100,000 btu per therm
For gas at $1 per therm and oil at $2.50 per gallon, gas costs 0.55 or 55% of oil.

Now multiply your old oil bill by the cost ratio of oil to natural gas to get your new gas bill. The difference between you oil bills and the new gas bills you put in your pocket.

If you burned 2,000 gallons oil at $2.50 per gallon for a $5,000 heating bill last winter you would spend $2,750 for gas at $1 per therm this winter for a savings of $2,250.

If the cost difference to go gas vs oil is plus five grand, 2-1/2 years from now you'd have a free gas furnace and then free airfare to Hawaii for you and wife every year thereafter.

Sounds like a no brainer in my humble opinion.

Well said. Very impressive.

[HVAC_Marc]

DONT

DONT

DONT

get a high efficiency oil furnace.

Did I mention

DONT

??

[BaldLoonie]

Yes, you did mention don't Wise advice.

Bring gas in.

[rider77]

DONT

DONT

DONT

get a high efficiency oil furnace.

Did I mention

DONT

??

Absolutely.
I've yet to hear of one that actually functions reliably.

[pecmsg]

there's an oil furnace now, so this would be a replacement. It may not surprise you that the oil company is offering a free furnace - I would only pay for installation. I don't know about heat pumps any suggestions?

Of course they will and charge a few cents more per gallon for the fuel

Key span will give you a new boiler also to convert to gas.

Go gas.

[timebuilder]

Well let's assume for a moment that you're in a nice up-and-coming section of Brooklyn such as Williamsburg. In that case, you want to maximize the future value of this home, and I would say that gas is certainly a prerequisite for that. You want to find a contractor that has done these types of gas conversions before, and can coordinate the lateral installation out of the gas main in front of your building and the installing of the meter, et cetera, and then you want to also convert to gas cooking. Future buyers of the home.... especially if they're trendy home cooks.... are going to want to use gas in their kitchen.

There may be a way to use a concentric vent for high efficiency gas to be placed inside the existing chimney, but that's something you're going to want to discuss with a contractor. The great thing about high efficiency gas is that there's a very low flu temperature, so re-lining the chimney is probably not going to be a necessity.

[STEVEusaPA]

Despite the comments from the oil haters, make sure you are actually comparing the numbers properly with oil vs. nat gas.
In my area oil was cheaper than nat gas 6 out of the last 10 years, when properly compared, meaning you have to consider all the numbers on your gas bill, including the 'customer charge' to get an accurate comparison.
Also, many people like to compare a very old oil system, something probably 60-70% efficient to a brand new gas system and say....look I saved a lot of money.
Bringing gas into a building is pretty expensive now.
And there are many reputable people in the industry predicting gas prices rising pretty substantially. Keep in mind also that fracking is destroying the water table and the environment and it's net damage is actually worse then coal. Oil companies are still competitive, where as not so much with gas.
Also keep in mind, when it's at it's coldest, the gas distribution has lots of problems--mainly there just isn't enough gas to meet demand. This is why big buildings, factories, schools are 'interruptible' customers that the gas company forces to switch to heating oil when demand is high. Pressures drop, nat gas gets mixed with other 'goodies', etc.

More important I think, and you said 'oil furnace', is to evaluate your duct system to make sure air is being distributed by the best system. 4 stories has it's own unique challenges, and maybe just one furnace isn't the way to go.
If it were me, and doable, I would twin 2 oil fired furnaces, with heat pumps. You can run the heat pumps in the shoulder seasons and use the oil as back up when it's coldest. This also gives you the benefit of some modulation by using one heat pump, then 2 heat pumps, then two oil fired furnaces.
I wouldn't go with any super efficient/condensing oil furnaces. They just don't have a proven track record in America.

Another options is a very efficient boiler or boilers, which I do like, something like Energy Kinetics, and do hydro air. This will allow you to break the system up by floors or zones. You can also do domestic hot water with it, and add radiant if so desired.

As far as lining the chimney, for that price I'll drive up there and do myself (with a helper)

[timebuilder]

I have seen gas supply availability from as low as $1k.

There will be rebates available, as well.

[Asm Mechanical]

is this a furnace connected to ductwork, or a boiler connected to piping?