Winning facility projects

[tmciver]

Greetings,

For those who are active in building / facility HVAC controls installation, what do you find facility managers and/or building owners look for most when choosing a controls contractor? (besides a low price).

Thanks for any insight. . .

[nikko]

Whoever makes them (facilities guys) look the smartest during the selection phase and if you've covered the guy's ass before, he'll come back. If you've let him down he'll move on regardless of what you put in front of him.

Building owners are all about price, but not necessarily first costs. If you can demonstrate a financial advantage for your solution AND get him comfortable you'll be there for issues you can often overcome a higher first cost roadblock.

Technology can often get you in the door, and occasioanlly it will make a sale, but that'a rare and getting rarer these days. Most owners don't care hos the job get's done or how the system communicates, they just want it to work and not to be bothered with trouble calls.

Nikko

[skorepeo]

someone who can explain in plain english exactly why their control system is better than the others. if it cost more why? how hard is it to program and operate for the 10 dollar an hour guy that we hire to run it. do you have at least 3 references that i can contact who has the same type equiptment that i have and same approximate sized facility. how long will you support it? does it have expansion capabilities? how will it save money in 5 to 10 years? what kind of warranty will i get?

answer these questions and prove them in your proposal

[osiyo]

Originally posted by tmciver
Greetings,

For those who are active in building / facility HVAC controls installation, what do you find facility managers and/or building owners look for most when choosing a controls contractor? (besides a low price).

Thanks for any insight. . .

I'm inclined to agree with Nikko.

I'm not that involved in an original sell of our services and equipment to new customers. But as one of the guys who gets a system put in, programmed and commissioned, I do talk to the customers and have more than a little influence on whether or not the customer is satisfied and happy in the end.

Originally posted by nikko
Whoever makes them (facilities guys) look the smartest during the selection phase and if you've covered the guy's ass before, he'll come back. If you've let him down he'll move on regardless of what you put in front of him.

I couldn't agree more with this. It's true at the level of the facility guys in upper level management or at department head level. And it's also true at the lower level of the guys using the new system. ie The building maintenance supervisor, head stationary engineer, or whatever the title used. We have numerous customers who have multiple facilities (buildings), each significantly sized building having a building maintenance supervisor (or some equivalent). Yah gotta make those guys happy, too. Make em believe you're on their side, listen to their problems, try to provide solutions to make their lives and jobs a bit easier, etc.

Some people in this forum seem to have a rather low opinion of the knowledge and skills of this group of folks, the building maintenance supervisors. I think it's because many of them do not have as in-depth of a knowledge of HVAC systems as a full time HVAC technician would, and often have precious little or NO knowledge of DDC controls. However, this doesn't mean these guys are stupid. Just means that HVAC and controls knowledge is just a small part of what they do and need to know as they usually have many other duties. Their advanced knowledge of HVAC and DDC systems may be lacking ... however, over the years while dealing with many of them as repeat business, I find that on average they're brighter than many give em credit for, can recognize BS when they see it, and have more influence with upper level management/owners than might be apparent at first. Especially when it comes to repeat business. That guy, the operator, the guy sitting at the front end screen of your system, can make yah look like a hero ... or totally destroy your reputation and credibility at upper management/owner level.

I've seen it many times.

Originally posted by nikko Building owners are all about price, but not necessarily first costs. If you can demonstrate a financial advantage for your solution AND get him comfortable you'll be there for issues you can often overcome a higher first cost roadblock.

Agreed.

Originally posted by nikko Technology can often get you in the door, and occasioanlly it will make a sale, but that'a rare and getting rarer these days. Most owners don't care hos the job get's done or how the system communicates, they just want it to work and not to be bothered with trouble calls.

Absolutely true, more times than not. Quite often I'll talk to a customer/owner, or even for that matter to design engineers about various DDC systems and communications protocols. Fact is, most don't know much, if anything, about such things. Except for possible "results" that such systems are capable of producing. And that is, after all, what they're really after. The results. They're really not that interested in the details of how those results are achieved.

Of those who profess a knowledge of DDC systems, comm protocols, etc ... the truth is, if yah have a detailed conversation with this sort you often find out that their knowledge is sketchy at best, and full of erroneous facts, assumptions, and so forth.

In either case, produce the RESULTS they're after; make it work, and make it work reliably and well ... and you'll make em happy.

Install a system for which yah have to make excuses, place blame on somebody else because it isn't working right, and have to have someone make frequent visits to fix something, re-program, modify, or whatever ... and it'll make no difference what system or protocol you used. You've now got an unhappy customer who probably is secretly thinking you are an idiot and scammer, and/or that whatever system you installed is a piece of junk.

Seen that many a time, also. ie A sizeable customer, many facilities, got sweet-talked into buying one of the "latest and greatest" systems (at the time). A Cadillac of BAS systems. LON compatible, etc. Probably was a pretty good system. IF installed right, configured right, programmed right, tested and commissioned correctly. But it wasn't. Install was shoddy at best, system design left something to be desired, etc, etc. Workers and lead automation tech and head programmer had ****ty attitudes ... and tended to make a lot of half-assed excuses for things not working as they should.

Net result, customer came back to us and asked us to install an older (but tried and proven) system, that customer had working in other budings owned by them ... and which had been working satisfactorily for many years with very few problems. And they gave the other guys the boot.

Customer have SOME interest in the latest technology and gadgets, but were FAR more interested in getting results they wanted ... reliably ... than anything else.

Just my thoughts.

[tmciver]

Great!
Has the LEED "green building" initiatives affected your business, got you studying up on that?

[nikko]

LEED is an interesting addition to the things a controls guy has to think about. And it's more than a bit ironic that even though LEED is about sving energy (etc.), and the easiest way to do that is by turning something off or down, LEED certification hasn't really affected the average controls guy's life. Nor will it.

Reason is simple - we've been doing what we do for a long time and technology has evened out to the point where regardless of the system, they all do a good job at turning things on/off or up/down in accordance to a set of instructions. The only thing LEED has really changed (and even this is monor) is the instructions as to when/how to enact sequences. The sequences themselves are the same ones we've been using for years.

That said, there are some new opportunities with LEED certified structures:..

Grey water recylcing is invoking new requirements and new sequences for controls - both for heat reclaim but also for primary filtration requirements ets.

Green roofs are requiring moisture monitoring and reactive functions must occur because of that watering.

Open windows and other natural ventilation methods are causing midifications to age-old sewuences and do present challenges for temp and pressure control.

Making use of thermal mass to store/collect/reject heat are causing sequences to be adapted to make better use of smaller equipment and do different things with it at different imes of day.

And while all of that is different, it's also the same stuff we always do.

Nikko

[tmciver]

Nikko
Great commentary. I appreciate that you and the others were able to provide some opinions! Have a great weekend. Not working I hope.

[Shophound]

I'll add my input from an end user standpoint...that of a central plant operator.

We recently upgraded our Metasys system from PMI to extended architecture. My boss, the facilities manager, pushed hard to get it approved after seeing EA at another facility in town. I wasn't involved with any sales pitches from JCI in the beginning, but my boss seemed pretty excited about it.

Now that the system is in and I've had time with it for awhile, I'm pleased with the much improved interaction and abilities the upgrade gives us. However, the process of getting the hardware/software/infrastructure installed was less than smooth. The excitement my boss had for the upgrade was dampered considerably by the difficulties we experienced during the installation...mainly LACK OF COMMUNICATION. My boss had to phone several times to ask when the next event was to occur...no calls coming in saying, "Yes Mr. FM, we'll be there at such and such a time to do so and so...etc.". The customer should not have to prod the contractor to keep things moving, especially at the cost being levied for the upgrade!

It's a recurring theme I've had with several vendors I've dealt with in various buildings I've maintained/managed...lack of communication! Even if the vendor can't immediately address my concern, a quick phone call or email saying something, anything, is better than cold silence. I've learned to weed out vendors as a result for this reason...the ones that communicate well and keep me in the loop get my repeat business...even if they're a shade less competitive in price than the guy one has to nag to death just to get a slim chance of a response.

[Edited by shophound on 08-11-2006 at 11:25 PM]

[skrewt]

I had a customer years ago say something to me that has guided my professional career.

He said, "I don't care who's equipment is on the wall, they all work pretty well and do the same general thing. I care about the tech that comes to my site, If I can rely on him and trust what he says, I'll stick with that company."

It's been my guiding light ever since.

[tmciver]

That seems to be a common theme throughout the HVACR industry.
In some ways the equipment is identical, but it's the installation and service that matter most.
Thanks for the comments. Have a cool week.