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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    1,002

    CVRE motor burn out

    The chiller motor popped and below is the log after it tripped. I dont have a lot of details to offer heres what i do know. going over a four month period.

    1. day one, chiller control panel fried
    2. replaced chiller panel with used panel.
    3. after 12 hrs, used panel blows
    4. chiller down for several weeks until new panel installed.
    5. startup, chiller runs for two weeks but experiences many problems with surging and water flows. then motor blows.
    6.Chiller is found to be 450lbs short of freon after pump down

    I have no operating logs during the time it did run, no history of megg test, I'm still gathering information.

    one issue that i did find out about was they found the control transformer for the pumps had blown so the unit would not start unless we flipped the pumps on hand. we replaced the tranformer.

    I have three questions then i will leave it to you all to have some fun and give some "what do i think may have happened" or what would you all look at?

    Questions:

    1. if the unit tripped on a latched alarm, would this be a manaul reset or would it try to auto reset when the status changed.
    2. do you think the new panel could of been a factor in the sequence of operation
    3. from the alarm history what do you think was going on? what jumps out at you?


    grab a cup of coffee and enjoy, Thanks in advance for the help!




    Chiller Service Report

    Refrigerant Type R11
    Notes Log after unit tripped breaker motor grounded

    Tracer TU Configuration
    Version 7.1.67

    PC Configuration
    Operating System Windows XP
    OS Version 5.1.2600.196608 - Service Pack 3

    Unit Information
    Chiller Model Number CVRE
    Product Name Tracer UC800
    Application Part Number 6200-0496-2.00
    Boot Part Number 6200-0446-1.00
    Build Part Number 6200-0495-2.00
    Current Date/Time 12/20/2011 10:31 AM

    Controller Settings
    Date and Time
    Time Format 12-Hour
    Date Format MMDDYYYY
    Date Separator Slash (/)

    Units
    Unit System Inch-Pound
    Pressure Units psia

    Protocol
    BAS Interface Not Installed

    Chiller Configuration
    Main
    CVR Unit Type (MODL)
    Wye-Delta Starter Type

    UC800
    800 Tons Unit Capacity(PTON)
    800 Tons Compressor Size(NTON)
    R11 Refrigerant Type
    15 psig Condenser High Pressure Cutout
    Not Installed Second Condenser
    Stepper IGV Type
    10 minutes Max Capacity Relay Filter Time
    10 minutes Head Relief Relay Filter Time
    Pressure Sensors Oil Management Type
    75 Ohm RTDs Motor Temperature Protection Type
    Water Pump Control Water Pump Control

    Options
    Single IGV Actuators
    Not Installed Purge Control
    Installed Line Voltage Sensing

    UC800
    Not Installed Compressor Refrigerant Discharge Temperature Sensor

    Options
    Not Installed Bearing Temperature Sensors
    Installed Condenser Pressure Sensor
    Not Installed Hot Water Control
    Installed Evap Differential Wtr Press
    Installed Condenser Differential Water Pressure
    Not Installed Free Cooling
    Not Installed Outdoor Air Temp Sensor
    Not Installed Base Loading
    Installed Ice Building
    2 - 10 Vdc External Chilled Water Setpoint
    2 - 10 Vdc External Current Limit Setpoint
    Not Installed Refrigerant Monitor Type
    Not Installed % RLA and Condenser Rfgt Pressure Output
    One Relay Card Installed Operating Status Programmable Relays
    Not Installed Hot Gas Bypass
    Utility Compressor Power Source
    Not Installed Enhanced Oil Temperature Protection
    Installed Chiller Running Oil Temperature Control
    Not Installed BAS Interface
    Quad Relay Relay Option Package
    CVHE Operator Display Image Type
    Not Installed Starter Safety Inputs
    Not Installed Call for Cooling and Interlock

    Options Setup
    34 F ECWS Minimum Temperature
    65 F ECWS Maximum Temperature
    40 %RLA ECLS Minimum %RLA
    100 %RLA ECLS Maximum %RLA
    Chiller Running Module 1 Programmable Status Relay 1 (J2-1,2,3)
    Chiller Latching Alarm Indicator Module 1 Programmable Status Relay 2 (J2-4,5,6)
    Chiller Maximum Capacity Indicator Module 1 Programmable Status Relay 3 (J2-7,8,9)
    Purge Alarm Module 1 Programmable Status Relay 4 (J2-10,11,12)
    14 psid Evaporator Differential Water Pressure Range
    12 psid Condenser Differential Water Pressure Range

    Starter
    3 Seconds Stop Delay Time (Contactor Interrupt Failure)
    460 Voltage Unit Line Voltage
    20 Voltage Transformer Ratio
    817 Amps Rated Load Amps
    864 Amps CT Meter Scale
    30 Percent Current Unbalance Trip Point
    90 Seconds Current Unbalance Grace Period
    27 Seconds Maximum Acceleration Setting
    Shutdown Acceleration Time Out Action
    Linear Overload Type
    Enable Phase Reversal Protection
    Disable Contactor Integrity Test
    700 milliseconds Phase Reversal Grace Period
    Enable Surge Protection
    Enable Momentary Power Loss Protection
    150 Seconds Restart Inhibit Stop to Start Time
    20 Percent Surge Sensitivity
    150 Seconds Power Loss Reset Time

    Chiller Status
    Chiller Modes
    Stopped Chiller Top Level Mode
    Local Stop Chiller Sub Mode
    Diagnostic Shutdown - Manual Reset Chiller Sub Mode
    Chiller Sub Mode
    Chiller Sub Mode
    Chiller Sub Mode
    Chiller Sub Mode

    Diagnostic Modes
    Stopped Chiller Mode at Time of Last Diagnostic
    Software Service Lock Diagnostic Sub Mode
    Local Stop Diagnostic Sub Mode
    Diagnostic Shutdown - Manual Reset Diagnostic Sub Mode
    Diagnostic Sub Mode
    Diagnostic Sub Mode
    Diagnostic Sub Mode

    Chiller
    Stopped Active Chiller Auto/Stop Command
    0.0% Chilled Water Control Feedback Command
    0.0% Chilled Water Control Feedforward Cmd
    0.0% Chiller Control Signal
    0.0% Chiller Control Signal Target
    Cooling Chiller Heating or Cooling Mode
    Off Chiller Running
    On Emergency Stop
    Auto External Auto Stop
    Stop Front Panel Auto/Stop
    Off Head Relief Request Relay
    00:00 Min:Sec Ice To Normal Time Remaining
    False Manual Override Exists
    Off Maximum Capacity Relay
    00:00 Min:Sec Minimum Capacity Time Remaining
    False Need To Cool
    True Need To Heat
    00:00 Min:Sec Post-Lubrication Time
    0 Sec Power Up Delay Inhibit
    00:00 Min:Sec Pre-Lubrication Time
    R11 Refrigerant Type

    Evaporator
    45.0 F Active Chilled Water Setpoint
    Front Panel Active Chilled Water Setpoint Source
    27.0 F Active Ice Termn Setpoint
    Front Panel Active Ice Termination Setpoint Source
    0.0 tons Calculated Chiller Capacity
    0.3 gpm Approx Evap Water Flow
    13.4 F Evaporator Design Delta Temp
    0.00 PSID Evap Differential Wtr Press
    45.4 F Evap Entering Water Temp
    45.0 F Filtered Chilled Water Setpoint
    45.5 F Evap Leaving Water Temp
    12.0 F Evaporator Leaving Water Temp Cutout
    Off Evaporator Pump Control
    Auto Evaporator Pump Override
    60:00 Min:Sec Evaporator Pump Override Time Remaining
    No Flow Evaporator Water Flow Switch
    No Flow Evap Water Flow Status
    1 Min Evaporator Water Pump Off Delay
    ------ Ext Chilled Wtr Setpt
    Disable Ext Chilled Wtr Setpt
    45.0 F Front Panel Chilled Water Setpt
    False Front Panel Ice Building Command
    27.0 F Front Panel Ice Termn Setpt
    105.0 F High Evaporator Water Temperature Cutout

    Condenser
    0.0 gpm Approx Cond Water Flow
    0.00 PSID Cond Differential Wtr Press
    66.6 F Cond Entering Water Temp
    67.2 F Cond Leaving Water Temp
    60:00 Min:Sec Condenser Pump Override Time Remaining
    No Flow Cond Water Flow Status
    1 Min Condenser Water Pump Off Delay
    Off Condenser Pump Control

    Circuit
    ------ Cond Approach Temp
    8.3 PSIA Cond Rfgt Pressure
    66.1 F Cond Sat Rfgt Temp
    0.66 PSID Differential Refrigerant Pressure
    ------ Evap Approach Temp
    7.6 PSIA Evap Rfgt Pressure
    43.4 F Evap Sat Rfgt Temp
    Off High Pressure Cutout Circuit

    Motor
    50.0% Active Current Limit Setpoint
    Front Panel Active Current Limit Setpoint Source
    0.0 A Average Line Current
    0.0% Average Line Current % RLA
    100.0% Current Limit SoftLoad Target
    0.0% Electro-Mech. Phase Unbalance
    18400 kWh Energy Consump NonReset
    18400 kWh Energy Consumption Resettable
    Disable Ext Current Limit Setpt
    ------ Ext Current Limit Setpt
    50.0% Front Panel Current Limit Setpoint
    100.0% Ice Machine Current Limit Setting
    ------ Motor Temperature
    ------ Motor Winding Temp #1
    ------ Motor Winding Temp #2
    ------ Motor Winding Temp #3
    00:00 Min:Sec Restart Inhibit Time
    Stopped Compressor Running
    2.0 V Starter Average Phase Voltage
    0.0 A Starter Current L1
    0.0% Starter Current L1 % RLA
    0.0 A Starter Current L2
    0.0% Starter Current L2 % RLA
    0.0 A Starter Current L3
    0.0% Starter Current L3 % RLA
    0.00 Starter Load Power Factor
    0.0% Starter Max Current
    0.0 kW Starter Power Consumption
    0.0 kW Starter Power Demand
    Disable Starter Test Mode
    2.0 V Starter Voltage Phase AB
    2.0 V Starter Voltage Phase BC
    2.0 V Starter Voltage Phase CA
    ------ Time of Last Reset
    False Transition Complete

    Compressor
    0.0% Compressor Control Signal
    Inactive Compressor Running Relay
    Stopped Compressor Running
    40:33 Hr:Min Compressor Running Time
    20 Compressor Starts
    3.1 PSIA High Vacuum Trip Point
    0 steps Inlet Guide Vane 1 Manual Position Comma
    0.0% IGV1 Position
    0 steps IGV1 Position Steps
    Auto Inlet Guide Vane Control
    0.00 PSID Oil Differential Pressure
    On Oil Heater Command
    Off Oil Pump Command
    Auto Oil Pump Control
    8.4 PSIA Oil Pump Discharge Pressure
    00:00 Min:Sec Oil Pump Override Time Remaining
    8.5 PSIA Oil Tank Pressure
    129.2 F Oil Tank Temperature

    Chiller Service Setpoints
    Chiller Setpoints
    45.0 F Front Panel Chilled Water Setpt
    50.0% Front Panel Current Limit Setpoint
    Auto Front Panel Ice Building Command
    2.0 F Differential to Start
    5.0 F Differential to Stop
    Ext/FP Setpoint Source
    264.2 gpm Evaporator Water Flow Point 1
    1.45 PSID Evaporator Pressure Drop Point 1
    422.7 gpm Evaporator Water Flow Point 2
    4.35 PSID Evaporator Pressure Drop Point 2
    1.000 Evaporator Fluid Specific Gravity
    1.000 Evaporator Fluid Specific Heat
    600.0 gpm Evap Low Water Flow Warning Setpoint
    264.2 gpm Condenser Water Flow Point 1
    1.45 PSID Condenser Pressure Drop Point 1
    422.7 gpm Condenser Water Flow Point 2
    4.35 PSID Condenser Pressure Drop Point 2
    0.0% Minimum Capacity Limit
    100.0% Maximum Capacity Limit
    0.0% Chiller Start Initial Capacity Command

    Compressor Setpoints
    143.0 F Oil Temperature - Compressor Stopped
    100.0 F Oil Temperature - Compressor Running
    95.0 F Low Oil Temperature Inhibit Setpoint
    12.00 PSID Low Diff Oil Pressure Cutout Setpoint
    Disable Check Oil Filter Diagnostic
    15.00 PSID Check Oil Filter Setpoint
    4 Hr Check Oil Heater Setpoint
    Normal Shutdown Motor Winding Temp Diagnostic Severity
    180 Sec Post-Lube Time Setpoint
    60 Sec Pre-Lube Time Setpoint

    Chiller Field Startup Settings
    Feature Settings
    Disable Chilled Water Reset Type
    50.0% Return Reset Ratio
    10.0 F Return Start Reset
    5.0 F Return Maximum Reset
    10.0% Outdoor Reset Ratio
    90.0 F Outdoor Start Reset
    5.0 F Outdoor Maximum Reset
    Disable Ext Chilled Wtr Setpt
    Disable Ext Current Limit Setpt
    27.0 F Front Panel Ice Termn Setpt
    13.4 F Evaporator Design Delta Temp
    12.0 F Evaporator Leaving Water Temp Cutout
    50000 steps Inlet Guide Vane Max Steps First Stage
    12.0 F Low Refrigerant Temp Cutout
    93.0% Condenser Limit Setpt
    Enable Restart Inhibit Diagnostic
    3 Restart Inhibit Free Starts
    30 Min Restart Inhibit Start to Start
    12.8 PSIA Local Atmospheric Pressure
    105.0 F High Evaporator Water Temperature Cutout
    110.0 F High Evaporator Rfgt Temp Warning
    Enable Ice Building Feature
    100.0% Current Limit Softload Start Point
    Enable Phase Unbalance Limit Protection
    Enable Over/Under Voltage Protection
    Enable Minimum Capacity Timer
    Enable Control Algorithm Flow Compensation
    Enable Disable Surge Diagnostic

    Manual Settings
    False Clear Energy Consumption
    False Clear Restart Inhibit Timer

    Timers
    5 Min Ice to Normal Cooling Timer Setpoint
    480 Min Maximum Time at Minimum Capacity
    15 Sec Power-Up Start Delay
    1 Min Condenser Water Pump Off Delay
    1 Min Evaporator Water Pump Off Delay
    60 Sec Capacity Control Softload Time
    60 Sec Current Limit Control Softload Time
    15 Min Starter Power Demand Time Period

    Level 4 Gains and Start Sequence
    Normal Start Sequence Type
    Normal Evaporator Pump Control Type
    50.0 Chilled Water Control Gain Kp
    120 Sec Chilled Water Control Reset Time
    0.0 Chilled Water Control Gain Kd
    80.0% Chilled Water Control Feedforward Gain
    25.0% Evap/Cond Lift Corrections

    Level 4 Starts and Runtime
    40:33 Hr:Min Compressor Running Time
    20 Compressor Starts

    Chiller Purge
    Active Alarms
    Target Severity Date/Time Persistence Description
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:11 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:11 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:11 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor

    Historic Alarms
    Target Severity Date/Time Persistence Description
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:05 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:05 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:05 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:04 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:04 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:04 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Starter Comm Loss: Main Processor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 10:03 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:41 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:41 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:41 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:24 AM Latching Starter Comm Loss: Main Processor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:24 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:24 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:24 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:09 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 3 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:09 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 2 Sensor
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/20/2011 09:09 AM Latching Motor Winding Temperature 1 Sensor
    Platform Warning 12/20/2011 09:09 AM Nonlatching MP: Reset Has Occurred
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/15/2011 12:46 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/14/2011 08:30 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/14/2011 03:37 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/13/2011 08:30 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/13/2011 05:31 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/12/2011 08:36 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/12/2011 01:09 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/09/2011 10:27 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/09/2011 04:19 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/09/2011 04:19 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/09/2011 07:11 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/09/2011 07:11 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/09/2011 03:12 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/09/2011 03:01 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/09/2011 12:15 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 04:39 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 04:39 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 02:35 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 02:35 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 02:35 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 02:35 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 02:34 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 02:34 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 02:34 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 02:34 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 07:32 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:11 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 07:11 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/08/2011 05:22 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/08/2011 05:20 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/07/2011 04:09 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/07/2011 02:52 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 12/07/2011 01:49 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 12/07/2011 01:41 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/07/2011 01:17 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/06/2011 08:30 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/06/2011 07:12 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/06/2011 12:29 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/05/2011 08:30 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/05/2011 03:00 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/04/2011 08:31 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/02/2011 07:16 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/02/2011 03:16 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/01/2011 08:51 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/01/2011 08:51 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Warning 12/01/2011 08:31 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/01/2011 08:25 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 12/01/2011 07:36 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 12/01/2011 07:07 AM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 11/30/2011 08:23 PM Latching Condenser High Pressure Cutout
    Chiller Immediate Shutdown 11/30/2011 08:17 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost
    Chiller Warning 11/30/2011 03:01 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/30/2011 01:49 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/30/2011 01:24 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/30/2011 04:00 AM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Warning 11/29/2011 08:30 PM Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/29/2011 08:21 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/29/2011 03:47 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/29/2011 03:43 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/29/2011 03:38 PM Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue
    Platform Warning 11/28/2011 02:11 PM Nonlatching MP: Reset Has Occurred
    Ice Building Normal Shutdown 11/28/2011 11:31 AM Latching Comm Loss: Ice Building Relay
    Chiller Warning 11/28/2011 11:31 AM Latching Comm Loss: Evaporator Water Pump Relay
    Chiller Warning 11/28/2011 11:31 AM Latching Comm Loss: Condenser Entering Water Temp
    Chiller Normal Shutdown 11/28/2011 11:31 AM Latching Comm Loss: Motor Winding Temperature 2

    LLID List
    Condenser Refrigerant Pressure Transducer
    Condenser Saturated Refrigerant Temperature Sensor
    Evaporator Saturated Refrigerant Temperature Sensor
    Inlet Guide Vane Actuator
    Motor Winding Temperatures 1, 2, and 3
    Oil Tank Temperature Sensor
    Oil Tank Pressure Transducer
    Oil Pump Discharge Pressure Transducer
    Evaporator Entering Water Temperature Sensor
    Evaporator Leaving Water Temperature Sensor
    Condenser Entering Water Temperature Sensor
    Condenser Leaving Water Temperature Sensor
    External Auto/Stop and Emergency Stop Inputs
    External Current Limit and Chilled Water Setpoints
    External Ice Building Command and Unused Input
    Condenser Water and Evaporator Water Flow Switch/Interlock
    Operating Status Programmable Relays Module 1
    Oil/Refrigerant Pump Motor Control Relay
    Condenser and Evaporator Water Pumps, Oil Tank Heater Control, and Ice Building Relays
    Condenser High Pressure Cutout Switch and HGBP Valve Closed Input
    Evaporator and Condenser Water Differential Pressure Inputs
    Starter Module

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,145
    I'll help get the ball rolling on this. First, you might get more responses in a chiller forum. To answer your questions: 1- Latched is Trane's word for manual reset, however deenergizing and then energizing the control panel has the same effect as manually resetting it. It should not automatically reset a latched alarm in any way other than a manual reset or deenergizing power.2 - Concerning the "sequence of operation" depends on what panel it replaced. Should be no major change, if any. Probably not even noticable to the operator. However, the more important question (and the one you may be asking) is how does the new panel affect the chiller overall. It is extemely important that the new panel is configured properly for the chiller it is on and also all settings for the safeties are set correctly. 3 - First thing I see is the "motor winding temperature sensor" diagnostics. Under UC800 it shows that for "Motor Temperature Protection Type", "75 Ohm RTDs" was selected, but under "Motor Report" there is a blank reading for all 3 "Motor Winding Temp" readings. It would help to know what the original chiller model number was, or what control panel it had. Earlier models had a temperature switch for motor temp protection, and (some ?) later models may have used a different RTD. Also, there are several low evaporator water flow issues. I suspect the earliest recorded ones, dated 12/01/11 and earlier may be due to the new panel installation being completed and undergoing testing by the installers. So let's look at later ones. "Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Overdue" -When the chiller is in "Auto" it attempts to run the chilled water pump. For some reason the chiller saw no proof of flow. Either there was no flow or the flow proving device failed.; "Nonlatching Low Evaporator Water Flow" - The evaporator water flow rate, as measured by the optional entering and leaving water pressure transducers (plus some calculating by the control panel using those values and settings programmed into the panel by the installer), is below the setpoint as entered (adjustable). For what it's worth - I have not seen transducers available that I consider accurate and reliable for this function and I always disabled this to prevent such nuisance diagnostics.; "Nonlatching Evaporator Water Flow Lost" - The flow proving device/circuit saw a loss of flow while the chiller was in a "Run" mode. Either flow actually stopped or the device (paddle switch, differential pressure switch, thermal dispersion sensor, etc...) failed. Also, "nonlatching" is Trane speak for auto reset, when the condition that caused that diagnostic is corrected the chiller will automatically restart if in "Auto" and a call for cooling exists.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,145
    I see this is on a Y-Delta starter, and that the "Contactor Integrity Test" is disabled. I prefer to enable this to give some additional motor protection in the unlikely event of a stuck or welded contactor.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,145
    The first thing I would do to determine what caused the motor to blow (after verifying that little fact myself ) is verify the new panel was correctly set up, and then inspect/test the starter. I am concerned about motor temp sensors issue. It should not have run from day one the it looks now. Was something changed? What is current status of those sensors, the LLID they connect to?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    1,002
    great input!

    And i agree, i need to find the main reason why. I hope to have all the logs sent to me. I understand everything your saying. I was wondering if the refrigerant that cools the motor may have been slowed or stopped altogether due to pressures or water temps that prevented the motor to be properly cooled.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,145
    Do you know what the original model number was? Trane gives a new model number to a chiller that has been retrofitted with an updated control panel. I believe that is what CVRE means. That tells us next to nothing about what style the chiller is. A brief description would help if you don't know. Or the first four digits of the serial number. I ask because different models are affected to different degrees, in regards to motor cooling, by the difference between evaporator and condenser pressures. I have also seen it affected by low refrigerant charge. These will usually be exposed first by the outboard bearing temperature sensor, if installed. Which you don't have.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
    Posts
    2,145
    Also, why is "Evaporator Leaving Water Temp Cutout" set at 12 degrees? And "Low Refrigerant Temp"? Especially since "Front Panel Chilled Water Setpoint" is at 45 degrees.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    1,002
    Model # CVHE080FAR2VC273EDEZC12DAZC0000000061W0A

    also, these chillers make ice at night.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    PA
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    Moved to Chillers forum.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Prattville, Alabama
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    Model # CVHE080FAR2VC273EDEZC12DAZC0000000061W0A

    also, these chillers make ice at night.
    Thanks. I have one more question (for now ); Is this new enough to have a refrigerant pump? The easy way to tell is the location of the oil tank - if the oil tank is located on top of the evaporator, directly under the motor, then it has no refrigerant pump. If the oil tank is under the condenser, on the floor, then it has the refrigerant pump. With the refrigerant pump, the chiller will operate at lower refrigerant differential pressure. Trane states down to 3 PSID, under steady state conditions. And down to 5 PSID without. Ice making mode explains the low limits. I'm sure glycol's been verified?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Mixing oil and fire with a big spoon.
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    the chiller report shows R11 as the selected refrigerant. Trane did not offer R11 in the chillers with the refrigerant pump...unless this chiller was not setup properly.

    i also see several things not installed...
    bearing temperature sensors
    safety starter inputs
    purge

    these are pretty basic items that should have been installed

    why is the atmospheric pressure set to 12.8 psia?
    "If you pull one more stunt like you just pulled with Tommy, you won't have to get on a plane because I will personally kick your ass from here to Korea!" - Best of the Best

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    101
    I tell customers the motor usually blows on the third reset. Looks like your guy got a few more. Latching faults mean the problem should be investigated and fixed before restarting. That panel has a data log that can be extracted and examined to help identify the problem. Requires factory level access and a trained tech to interpret it. Not always conclusive but it may help.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayguy View Post
    the chiller report shows R11 as the selected refrigerant. Trane did not offer R11 in the chillers with the refrigerant pump...unless this chiller was not setup properly.

    i also see several things not installed...
    bearing temperature sensors
    safety starter inputs
    purge

    these are pretty basic items that should have been installed

    why is the atmospheric pressure set to 12.8 psia?


    Nuclrchiller and jayguy you are correct no pump. Not sure about the atmospheric pressure set, but i will add it to my list of questions. what should it be?

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