High head pressure has me worried!

[wingman65]

Changed evap coil on 30 year old 5 ton commercial split yesterday. Temperatures were extreme here in St. Louis to say the least, but 375# head pressure has me worried. Any feed back would be appreciated, all data listed below.


Indoor entering drybulb: 95.5 deg
Indoor entering wetbulb: 80.4 deg
outside ambient: 110 deg
Low side pressure: 80#
High side pressure: 375#
Suction line temp: 84.2 deg
Condenser leaving temp: 142.7
Cond delta T : 32.7 deg

Charged to target superheat of 34deg ( 84-50). Could the high head be due to extreme conditions or could there be something else?

[martyinlincoln]

Condensing temp 40 degrees over ambient along with 37 superheat,which is way too high(actual target 25). Looks like that condensor needs a good cleaning,split the coils if it's double row. Probably needs more gas too once it's cleaned up good.

Had one thursday doing the same thing. Was thinking overcharged with restriction at first but then saw double coils. Had already washed them but needed to split, was a blanket of crap between not coming out. Once clean it took 38 oz,head ran 290 with superheat within 1 degree of target.

[wingman65]

The superheat table I have in front of me (generic) calls for target superheat of 37deg with oat of 110deg, indoor wb temp of 80deg and indoor db of 95deg. condenser split is 32deg, 142-110. I'm just worried I might have noncondensibles since I opend the system up. Will go back monday on more normal conditions and reexamine.

[dunkman]

Tough when it's 110 Oat. ouch. On a 30 year old unit you have a relatively small condensor coil so you get higher temp splits across the condensor. Your liq line temp should be around what.... 10-15 degrees over the oat max? Much higher and you have a dirty condensor/undercharged. Is there a pressure tap on the compressor discharge so you can pump down and check for non condensibles?

[wingman65]

The outdoor unit has king valves, so yes it can be pumped down. I did not measure liquid line temps but it was smokin hot and is exposed to direct sun on the roof. Coils dont look too dirty, but cleaning may be beneficial. Didn't think undercharged with 50deg sattemp and 84deg slt.

[dunkman]

I didn't mean that you were necessarily undercharged in your case. Just sharing general knowledge. You can tell what your condensor efficiency is by the liq line temp-oat (approach temp)

Could it be that you have some hail damage, or bent fins, slower rpm cond fan motor than original???

Thankfully we never see 110 degrees here, maybe some of the southerners can chime in.

[wingman65]

Thanks for your input. We've had 10 straight days of 100deg plus with 0 rain, setting records that go back to dustbowl days of the 30's. It is killing equipment, people, and wearing out techs. I think more normal temps may give a better representation of equipment health. Not looking forward to putting a 5 ton condenser on the roof of a 2 story builing if/when it does expire.

[ottawaair]

This high heat has exposed many dirty condenser coils in my area. Units that can't keep up but once cleaned are running just great.

[thermojohn]

I did not measure liquid line temps but it was smokin hot and is exposed to direct sun on the roof.

Was going to ask about your liquid line temp but you answered my question.

Liquid temp is always important to help you determine if your high head is either a lack of heat rejection or a lack of refrigerant flow or compromised refrigerant.

Even with extreme conditions as yours, knowing your subcooling temp is just as important as your superheat in determining the state or condition of any refrigerant charge.

[wingman65]

Thanks Thermojohn, at the end of a long hot day I neglected to measure ll temps, was hastily trying to get system running. Will revisit monday and post up to date info, everything seemed ok but high head. Are those numbers too far off track for the conditions at hand, if so, what should I look for???

[thermojohn]

Thanks Thermojohn, at the end of a long hot day I neglected to measure ll temps, was hastily trying to get system running. Will revisit monday and post up to date info, everything seemed ok but high head. Are those numbers too far off track for the conditions at hand, if so, what should I look for???

375psi for R-22 is going to be a little rough on a compressor and is not close to what I like to leave - even for a weekend. Next thing to determine is your subcooling to define why your head is so out of kilter.

Your high head most likely is going to be one of the three things I posted earlier.

[wingman65]

The 375 head is the concern that lead me to post. Luckily it is a business and it will be shut down over the weekend. I just seek possible answers as too why it is so high.

[beenthere]

Your head will be high with that high of a heat load from the indoor conditions. Once the indoor drops below 90, your head will drop.

[ar_hvac_man]

Always assume the condenser is dirty, even if it "looks" clean. Ive seen many "clean looking" condensers make alot of mud.

375 looks about right for a 30 yr old unit with 110 deg OD and 95 deg indoor.

Someone mentioned condensing temperature 40 above ambient not being right. Id have to disagree, its a 30yr old unit. Probably well under a 10 seer, which is the seer level that uses the 30 deg above ambient rule of thumb.

37 deg SH is expected at 95 indoor ambient lol. Not out of line at all.

Once you get your indoor ambient down, re-check your numbers.

[catmanacman]

if the metering device is the correct size and the condenser coil is clean let it run and cool the place down then check it again also it is probably a 13 seer rated coil you installed and is picking up a lot of heat

[wingman65]

I plan to do a follow up tomorrow under less extreme conditions. I think I will clean the condenser coil also. Having not worked in such extreme heat, the high head had me alarmed. I'll post updated numbers. Thanks for all the feedback.

[tinknocker service tech]

back in the day it was not uncomon to find a unit on a roof or in sun on a 100 degree day to run at 350 or so
check it when it cools dow if it ever does

[Mr Bill]

back in the day it was not uncommon to find a unit on a roof or in sun on a 100 degree day to run at 350 or so.

Why do Fedders package units come to mind?

[jvillehvac]

this is off an old rheem, just showing you cause it is possible to run that head in such high conditions.

I have only seen this on old rheems for liquid line pressure charging so dont use it to charge other types if its not on there.

[wingman65]

Thanks Jville, my conditions were off that chart. We, thankfully, have more moderate temps coming so it will be easier to diagnos the health of the system. I think the extreme conditions were at play in this case, will follow up tomorrow.