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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,614
    Im betting it is a crappy bristol ts compressor and they are a huge peice of junk have replaced many .
    We really need change now

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    95
    Nothing yet, but I'll have an update next Wed. I'm working with the same Carrier rep, and have been able to communicate directly with him. But I decided to go with another HVAC contractor. I decided that the company I was with, even though they originally installed it, didn't have the expertise to help Carrier and I troubleshoot. Carrier apparently agreed, because Carrier is paying to have a new company (that I picked from his list) come out next Wed. and essentially start over with the diagnosis.

    He (Carrier) wants to have them check CFM, to make sure its actually what the Infinity controller is calling for (1400), and then do a more thorough compressor check - something that has yet to happen.

    Even though this is taking a long time to fix, I take comfort in the fact that Carrier is paying for all the troubleshooting. I assume that is because I had to pay for initial troubleshooting and installation of a TXV, which didn't work. Carrier paid all costs to install that 4" spacer between the furnace and the evaporator. Not sure what will happen when we finally decide its the compressor.

    I have a compressor pump down question, but I'll post that as a new thread


    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    rogressem, anything new to report?

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Thanks for the update.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    95
    The latest on this - a new company (paid for by Carrier) came out a couple of weeks ago, and measured CFM by measuring gas flow at the gas meter outside and return/supply air temps. They were getting about 1700CFM. They spent about 2-3 hours.
    After a few days, Carrier decided to have them replace the blower motor. I guess Carrier thinks the CFM is too high. Doesn't seem to be any concern over the compressor.
    So, I'm waiting for the new blower motor to be installed.

    If they don't hurry, its going to get too cold to troubleshoot this problem any more this season.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,157
    Any chance of a large return leak in the attic causing the problem? When the blower switches to high it would pull more hot attic air in. Other than that I agree with others, do the compressor.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Seems like they want to try absolutely every other remote possibility before replacing the compressor. Maybe they think that's too obvious. It's amazing with warranty issues, that rather than spend say $1000 repalcing a compressor, they will spend $200-300 increments 10X for twice the total amount to avoid it. Don;t feel bad, Ingersoll Rand (parent company to Trane) on the industrial side doesn't handle things any better.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by rogressem View Post
    The latest on this - a new company (paid for by Carrier) came out a couple of weeks ago, and measured CFM by measuring gas flow at the gas meter outside and return/supply air temps. They were getting about 1700CFM. They spent about 2-3 hours.
    After a few days, Carrier decided to have them replace the blower motor. I guess Carrier thinks the CFM is too high. Doesn't seem to be any concern over the compressor.
    So, I'm waiting for the new blower motor to be installed.
    More lunacy!
    If the indoor airflow were to high, with a correctly operating compressor 2nd stage, the system would have no problem cooling the house down in 2nd stage.
    It would actually do a better job of lowering the actual air temperature in the house than with normal airflow, but would have poor humidity control.

    Also, I'd love to hear an explanation of how checking the airflow in the HEATING mode, with a method that is subject to a rather broad range of error, translates in any way to what the airflow is in the COOLING mode on a system that uses different airflows for every stage of heating and cooling.

    The problem is the COMPRESSOR!
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    I know, raising a zombie thread, but I'm still wondering if this ever got fixed, so hoping this generates an email notification to the OP.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,843
    I am curious too.

    - there is now a bulletin about replacing bristol compressors and offering a replacement credit for a scroll outdoor unit.
    Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime.

    Give a man a capacitor, doesn't know what to do. Teach a man to install it, now he knows everything.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    between here and over there
    Posts
    453
    I hate to ask this, but... could someone break it down and explain to me how there getting the btu/hr based off the figures listed at the beginning of this thread. I attempted inputting figures into a psychometric calculate but Im not getting far with it. thank you.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    between here and over there
    Posts
    453
    double post

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,888
    Quote Originally Posted by rogressem View Post
    Just an update on this, or lack of update. (Carrier Infinity supply air temp goes up from low to high stage, suction pressure goes up - good performance at low stage) Original thread:
    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=1113821

    My original installer (from 2007) is waiting on a response from the local Carrier technical representative. In the meantime, I've been taking careful return/supply air temps at the air handler (return duct at air handler and a few feet downstream of evaporator). I've taken them almost every day, early morning and middle of these hot afternoons and the numbers are pretty consistent. BTU performance from low to high stage is essentially constant. This morning:

    LOW STAGE:
    Return Dry Bulb: 71.8
    Return Wet Bulb: 58.7
    Supply Dry Bulb: 48.7
    Supply Wet Bulb:47.4
    Following 3 readings from Infinity Controller
    CFM: 882
    Blower RPM: 599
    Static Pressure: .24


    HIGH STAGE:
    Return Dry Bulb: 71.5
    Return Web Bulb: 59
    Supply Dry Bulb: 55.4
    Supply Wet Bulb: 52.7
    Following 3 readings from Infinity Controller
    CFM: 1400
    Blower RPM: 960
    Static Pressure: .61
    Using only the bold-ed data & running the enthalpy numbers; I compared those enthalpy results to the "Expanded Performance Data" of a 4-Ton Goodman 2-stage unit.

    1st stage I got 26,553-Btuh; 2nd stage only 28,476-Btuh; Goodman 2nd stage - Expanded Performance Data, using 85-F OAT it shows 40,700-Btuh or under 3.5-Ton, but way above that 28,476. Always state the Outdoor Air Temp for comparative purposes. Seems as though Carrier's 2nd stage ought to be similar.

    On 1st stage the Goodman has a higher CFM airflow, but 2nd stage performance is what we are concerned with here, using 1400-CFM for both.

    2nd stage, at 80F-RA & 59F Wet bulb, Goodman shows a 24-F indoor airflow temp drop; Carrier's was way less; in 2nd stage the enthalpy change number is way below what it ought to be.

    Trehak01 look up wet bulb temps on chart, subtract for enthalpy change difference - follow multiplying directions at bottom: http://www.udarrell.com/wet_bulb_enthalpy_chart.pdf

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    between here and over there
    Posts
    453
    So, let me get this straight. I am going to find my supply wet bulb, return wet bulb and my static pressure.. that will give me the the BTU per pound of dry air. subtract the two, to get the difference. Use the difference in equation(total heat=CFMx4.5xEnthalpyChange)

    I did so and got 27,657.. not what I was thinking.. I would assume I did something wrong here...

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