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Thread: Isceon MO99

  1. #1

    Isceon MO99

    Have we established a general consensus about retrofitting with MO99? The reason I ask is because Im being "persuaded" to begin using it whenever possible by the owners of the apartment complexes where I work...and by "whenever possible", I mean anytime that they think it will save them a dollar. For example, I found several air handlers that had been replaced recently, but whoever installed them simply connected the electrical and ductwork and called it a day. They werent pumped down (they didnt even close the valves) and they just left the linesets dangling in the attic. And theyre wanting me to tie the lines in and use MO99 in them, simply because its cheaper. Id prefer using R22 for several reasons, not the least of which is that Ive always been very skeptical of drop-in replacements, so I thought Id try to learn the pros and cons of it here from yalls experiences with it. Ive researched it somewhat and am still on the fence about using it. The equipment Im dealing with is mostly 1.5-2.5 ton split systems which seem to have been very poorly maintained before I started working there, many patched together mis-matched and barely running, and others not working at all. Needless to say, I have my hands full, but I always welcome a challenge. Thanks in advance for any suggestions/advice.

  2. #2
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    I dont know a lot about Isceon, but I see it advertised on the r-22 boxes from Dupont all the time. I would like to hear from anyone who has used it and how the retrofitting process goes. Thanks for bringing it up.

  3. #3
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    A number of folks have commented on their experinence with MO99(tm) (R-438A) on this forum. Here is a link to some of them:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....9#post12747091


    Also a couple of commercial companies are going with MO99(tm)

    www.emersonnetworkpowerservice.com


    http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...1-30011-25.pdf


    I hope this helps.

  4. #4
    Yikes! It said I dont have permission to access that page....

  5. #5
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    MO99 is a pisspoor interim blend with a huge glide and loaded with flammables, I wouldn't use it in my AC. stick with r22 till something better comes around.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    MO99 is a pisspoor interim blend with a huge glide and loaded with flammables, I wouldn't use it in my AC. stick with r22 till something better comes around.
    Loaded with flammables??? Not true, maybe stick to topics you are knowledgeable on...

    Exactly 2.3% of the components that make up MO99 are flammable. Hardly qualifies for "loaded with flammables".

    With only a 5 - 6% capacity loss, and 30 - 40 lower discharge temps, it is a good choice.

    As for glide, at 100 psi it has a glide of 9, not a big deal for any tech worth his salt.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDJr View Post
    Have we established a general consensus about retrofitting with MO99? The reason I ask is because Im being "persuaded" to begin using it whenever possible by the owners of the apartment complexes where I work...and by "whenever possible", I mean anytime that they think it will save them a dollar. For example, I found several air handlers that had been replaced recently, but whoever installed them simply connected the electrical and ductwork and called it a day. They werent pumped down (they didnt even close the valves) and they just left the linesets dangling in the attic. And theyre wanting me to tie the lines in and use MO99 in them, simply because its cheaper. Id prefer using R22 for several reasons, not the least of which is that Ive always been very skeptical of drop-in replacements, so I thought Id try to learn the pros and cons of it here from yalls experiences with it. Ive researched it somewhat and am still on the fence about using it. The equipment Im dealing with is mostly 1.5-2.5 ton split systems which seem to have been very poorly maintained before I started working there, many patched together mis-matched and barely running, and others not working at all. Needless to say, I have my hands full, but I always welcome a challenge. Thanks in advance for any suggestions/advice.
    The main thing is to install a new drier, pull a deep vacuum <500 microns, and charge per SH or SC. You shouldn't have any problems.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcrj View Post
    Loaded with flammables??? Not true, maybe stick to topics you are knowledgeable on...

    Exactly 2.3% of the components that make up MO99 are flammable. Hardly qualifies for "loaded with flammables".

    With only a 5 - 6% capacity loss, and 30 - 40 lower discharge temps, it is a good choice.

    As for glide, at 100 psi it has a glide of 9, not a big deal for any tech worth his salt.

    Yesterday morning you were someones helper, since when you became an expert in refrigerants? MO99 is a good choice? a good choice for grilling steaks you mean, right?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Yesterday morning you were someones helper, since when you became an expert in refrigerants? MO99 is a good choice? a good choice for grilling steaks you mean, right?
    Where did you get that I was a helper? Haven't had that title for over 6 years.

    Helper or not, how is a refrigerant that has 2.3% flammable components dangerous?? I hope they never send you to work on a R-290 system.

    Facts are a problem for your negative response about MO99, sorry. Continue with the attacks though, they make me laugh.
    Last edited by Chuck; 07-10-2012 at 09:01 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #10
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    Since it has a lower discharge temp, I assume it's useless in a heat pump application.

    Roto-lock gaskets must be changed, so I assume the same with any gasketed liquid line connectors at the evaps.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Workin4TheMan View Post
    Since it has a lower discharge temp, I assume it's useless in a heat pump application.

    Roto-lock gaskets must be changed, so I assume the same with any gasketed liquid line connectors at the evaps.
    All elastomeric seals need to be changed. Not sure, but aren't roto lock seals teflon?

    A heat pump producing a condensing temp of, say 100, should still heat within 94% of original capacity. Very little of a HP capacity comes from desuperheating the discharge gas.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    MO99 is a pisspoor interim blend with a huge glide and loaded with flammables, I wouldn't use it in my AC. stick with r22 till something better comes around.
    FYI - MO99 (R438A) is non-flammable with ASHRAE A1 designation and also UL certified as non-flammable as formulated and under worse case leak scenarios.

    A number of other non-flammble refrigerant blends containing small percentages (not loaded) of hydrocarbons like HP80 have been used for decades.

    Also, the glide is less than other refirgerants such as R407C which have been used sucessfully for decades.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcrj View Post
    All elastomeric seals need to be changed. Not sure, but aren't roto lock seals teflon?

    A heat pump producing a condensing temp of, say 100, should still heat within 94% of original capacity. Very little of a HP capacity comes from desuperheating the discharge gas.
    I thought they were teflon as well. The roto lock statement came from the counter personnel at a refrigeration wholesaler, he had the spec sheet in his hand, but I did not see it myself, he may have translated elastomeric into "roto lock" cause he couldn't pronounce elastomeric.....

    And as soon as I hit post, it hit me.....duh, latent heat.

    This board could use an edit button.

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