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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966
    if you can't live comfortable on $38-$40 hr...$300 for watch coverage 3X a year...unlimited OT you have a major problem..as to living near the hall it doesn't exsist companies paying the gas bill might *****..the union has no input on that.i know techs that work midtown and live 150 miles north of Manhattan and they do the watch????always interesting.one rule that goes in companies here is if your in a service truck you get the watch for a week journey man or not...your out there. monthly house payments $1500-$2000 taxes on a 60' X 150' cape cod style house taxes $7000 yr 20 minutes away from my pix up top 90 minute drive from my YOUTUBE in the sig.
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  2. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by zw17 View Post
    I have found that each local has a different designation for some jobs.

    Here we have MES techs and building trades journeyman. Other locals can have Equipment serviceman journeyman, pipifitter journeyman, steam fitter journeyman, and the list goes on and on...

    As I understand it, as long as your card says journeyman you are allowed to work on any of the trades the UA covers.
    Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
    Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
    As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
    Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
    As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?
    Zw and I are in the same local. MES apprentice graduates after 5 years and is a Service Man. His company then recommends him (at their discression) for an upgrade. The hall has the tech take a JM test and pay money to be graded. If he passes, he then upgrades to Building Trades as a ____ (fill in the blank) JM. They have different designations for different techs. A lot of guys change companies if they're not upgraded quickly enough for the tech's patience. The typical time frame a guy waits to get referred for an upgrade is usually about 2 years as a Service Man. When he upgrades, he gets a couple dollars and a few other perks too.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
    Posts
    1,384
    I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.

  5. #18
    Maybe because they can be billed out at around 2.5 times their package cost and for 8 hrs. Example: Tucson BT Service Applied Jm/HVACR Tech cost $50/Hr., sell $125/Hr.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966
    had a chiller guy help me one time on a new start-up 75 ton trane rooftop up on 8' steel with no trap installed...ran it up to cool new space.when i shut it down the condensate connection looked like a 3/4 water line dumping the condensate out....chiller guy asks" why is it leaking water like that" their harmless with there big tonnages and charges.always enjoyed the watch service on the weekends and walking in a chiller down from a friday repair
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,350
    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.
    It is due to the cost of the chiller and what it serves. An average chiller costs $250K-$350K and a rebuild runs about $40K. Do you want a guy making $25hr or a guy making $50 an hour working on your machine? It is a specialized trade and in my opinion dying. The centravac is being pushed out by screws and turbocors. It won't be long until it is a turbocors.
    I STARTED WITH NOTHING, AND I STILL HAVE MOST OF IT!

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,966
    the chiller service contracts are a big support to shop during the slow months into the springs.tons of maual labor required with tubes,teardowns,fluid changes,seasonal towers work .WTC was $1 million a year with a lead tech on site 40hrs a week ....that is a lot of juice calling for help and support.York had a contract with 6 steam turbines uptown here..took 2.5 months to punch just the condenser tubes...and the chiller techs on both of these jobs from the day they started them up were GODS in the office.
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    58
    In TX most of us have BTJ Pipefitter cards. This entitles the holder to scale 27.50 which is the minimum they can pay. 90% of us make above that depending on what you know and what is in demand. 30-36 for process guys. Beware of the "Tradesman" designation. This is becoming more popular amongst contractors for those techs who wish to drop out of the apprenticeship program, or for folk who do pm's and filters. Most of them are promised eventual breakoout but never see that or even a raise.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,326
    here, btj guys are fitters, and fitters who do service on high tonnage, but wentthrough construction program. mesj is guys who went through service program. btj guys around 47, mesj around 40. btj guys may do anything, mesj guys are service. btj guys may get a van, mesj do get a van.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    51
    Chicago Pipe Fitters 597 had no HVAC Apprenticeship just a Construction Apprenticeship. Some of us Service guys got lucky over the years and served a Construction Apprenticeship. What 597 Service Contractors used was the C & B card or Metal Trades Journeyman for a half assed Apprenticeship. Training at night and advancement goverened by shop. As opposed to Construction Apprenticeship which was held the day and monitored by JATC. 2004 I was hired full time as an HVAC/R instructor. A formal Apprentice was started. I went to 420 (Philly) & 601 (Milwaukee) Spoke with some 638 hands in New York. Set up program equal in pay training hours with Construction. Apprentices came out as Building Trades Journeyman. No limit on type of work. Ran good for a few years but could not eliminate C & B card program. Contractors wore down Agent for lower service scale like the rest of the Country. Now HVAC Apprentices come out at "B" scale. Not a whimper at Union Meeting because of minimal Service members at meeting. So in protest I left the Full Time Position and went back in Service Truck. Brother U.A. HVAC/R there should only be two classifications of Pipe Fitter; Apprentice & Journeyman it's our own fault. Go to the meetings call Bull**** on split scale. How does two men screwing 2" gas lines together worth more than the guy who can repair the equipment that those gas lines feed?
    Bill Wren local 597 card #1086380 Building Trades Journeyman

  12. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyhat 597 View Post
    Chicago Pipe Fitters 597 had no HVAC Apprenticeship just a Construction Apprenticeship. Some of us Service guys got lucky over the years and served a Construction Apprenticeship. What 597 Service Contractors used was the C & B card or Metal Trades Journeyman for a half assed Apprenticeship. Training at night and advancement goverened by shop. As opposed to Construction Apprenticeship which was held the day and monitored by JATC. 2004 I was hired full time as an HVAC/R instructor. A formal Apprentice was started. I went to 420 (Philly) & 601 (Milwaukee) Spoke with some 638 hands in New York. Set up program equal in pay training hours with Construction. Apprentices came out as Building Trades Journeyman. No limit on type of work. Ran good for a few years but could not eliminate C & B card program. Contractors wore down Agent for lower service scale like the rest of the Country. Now HVAC Apprentices come out at "B" scale. Not a whimper at Union Meeting because of minimal Service members at meeting. So in protest I left the Full Time Position and went back in Service Truck. Brother U.A. HVAC/R there should only be two classifications of Pipe Fitter; Apprentice & Journeyman it's our own fault. Go to the meetings call Bull**** on split scale. How does two men screwing 2" gas lines together worth more than the guy who can repair the equipment that those gas lines feed?
    Bill Wren local 597 card #1086380 Building Trades Journeyman
    You got that right, Bro. A couple of BTJ Construction Pipefitters making more installing a 2000 TR Chiller, when all they do is pipe it? In so many Locals coast to coast, the BTJ Service HVACR Tech that does the annuals, stop-majors and overhauls on that same 2000 TR Chiller is guaranteed less on the contract? How's that work?! New york City is a sad example of all this.
    Face it, most U.A. Locals are Construction based. Very few are Service friendly, if they are then their "Service" in Plumbing. It seems we're dead last in importance to the UA. Something is barely now being done to try to remedy this, but it's only focused toward National signatories and signatories to the NSMA. I don't even know how Hill-Phoenix and Hussmann are signatory in parts of the country when the Locals' training centers can't teach anything about HVACR, much less about supermarket application.
    Right now the U.A. is going after Source, good luck. How would Source justify Union wages, even as Service Craftsmen i.e. Servicemen, when WalMart is driving down the vendor's street rates? Most Locals go into double-time once over 12 Hrs., how would Source handle this when the work their Techs like dogs over 12 Hrs.?
    Don't get me wrong, I'd welcome Source into the fold. That's about 1,000 new members and a new option in a large contractor who's trying to go nationwide.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    51
    Talk to 638 NY Coordinator few years ago. He was trying to change it but change is hard to accomplish. There is no difference on pay for 1/2" or 12" . Why a difference in pay for 3 ton or 300 ton? Smaller the pipe the more feet you install in same time. Smaller the equipment the more
    Pieces you work on in same time.
    Working on smaller equipment is harder than larger equiment. As for Training Chicago 597 is set up very well for HVAC/R they even have a hussman rack running .

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