What exactly is Building Trades in the UA?

[MechanicallyInclined]

The Local where I'm working at now calls anything within the Pipe Trades - Building Trades. Not considering what my UA card says, out here I'm a "Building Trades Journeyman (Service-HVACR)". A Construction Plumber is a "Building Trades Journeyman (Construction-Plumbing)". In my home Local, Construction is referred to as Building Trades, not Building Trades (Construction) and Service is just Service, not Building Trades (Service). Sorry if I confused anybody because now I'm confused. which way is correct? Keep in mind the variants like "Building Trades Service HVACR Tech Journeyman" or maybe the words being rearranged.

[zw17]

I have found that each local has a different designation for some jobs.

Here we have MES techs and building trades journeyman. Other locals can have Equipment serviceman journeyman, pipifitter journeyman, steam fitter journeyman, and the list goes on and on...

As I understand it, as long as your card says journeyman you are allowed to work on any of the trades the UA covers.

[maxster]

here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/

[ChrisTechMech]

here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/

Wow. I'm sure there's some kind of reason, but that's just nuts. I think they need more rules. Maybe the A side should pee holding their left hand while B uses their right and every other week they switch. Our guys are like zw17, we're in the same local, MES (mechanical equipment service) techs can work up to a certain tonnage. Anything above that tonnage is covered by Building Trades. Once an MES apprentice graduates from the apprenticeship program he is a Service Man. At any point thereafter he may be able to "upgrade" to a Building Trades Journeyman once certain criteria are met. His card may say any number of things like Refrigeration Fitter, etc. He switches from MES to Building Trades with different benefits and everything. We just share a hall, BA, same window dues, maybe a couple other similarities, but everything else is different. Some, very few, guys choose to stay MES and don't want to upgrade. Yeah... a lot of rules here too with a few disagreements.

[Bklyntek]

Hi Maxster, this is bklyntek, now living in So.Fla. looking to come home to the big city. Been down here for 11 years. Started in trade in sept.'86 and have worked up to industrial chillers. Worked for carrier BSS in NYC & Fl.,York 02-07, And recently MCQUAY. I don't move from job-job, but the markets been tough down here. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Dad's been a member since '68 and recently retired here.
I can be reached anytime,will update my profile,would like to talk to you.

[Bklyntek]

This is for Maxster, added email, like to hear from when it's convenient.
Thank you in advance.

[maxster]

how did you suvive that long without Brooklyn Slice of PIZZA out of Bayridge? forget Carrier NYC they are United Tech controlled big time you'll rock the boat if you hit that office.Trane LIC is always looking for BAS/HVAC savy guys .forget McQuay up here they are in a transistion since bought over by whoever...NYC is run out of a CT McQuay group of suits and ties...might throw a resume into SRS/BROOKLYN owners are former TRANE sales guys bailed on TRANE in 92' and built that company up bigtime...always need a sharp BAS guy...they rep Multistaak and Dectron in the metro area....and 20 or so other brands

[maxster]

aprentices in 638B go to union hall scholl once a week get payed and progress over a 4 yr period into journey men.now thatis the scholl saying they are journey men thru testing not what they do the other 4 days...the politics are bigtime with most of the major service group in NYC on the UNION tresurary or training boards$$$$$$$.most major companies run A fitter on call to intall there bids and a support group of service B guys to pick up the contracts once signed off.believe this a lead journeyman in Metal Trades scale is $36.30 as of now with a 4th year A fitter semi-journeyman at $40.60 A lead journeymn is at $50.75 and get this when they do OT they get 8 hours guarenteed at double time and they work in pairs...swetting in a condensate trap with everything delivered to them we use to have B Business Agents but after 2000 they pushed them out a merged the BAs so we have A BAs now..and they merged the medical so B guys can cover all the A guys that ran down to Ground Zero afer the attacks.the A guys are totally union orientated and the B guys are company orientated and the union treats us like it also....check my signiture youtube to cool off.

[MechanicallyInclined]

maxster, we've touched on this before, how is a Chiller Mechanic at $36.30/Hr. in NYC? A Chiller Mechanic in PHX, called a "Building Trades Applied Service Journeyman/HVACR Tech" or something like that, is at $38/Hr. It's time to level the playing field out there, all Jm in the Pipe Trades should be equal, if not HVACR should be higher. This is not figuring Industrial Construction of course.

[maxster]

$36.30 is just the journeyman rate anybody doing big tonnages,absortion,elecric drive chillers, hellical start-ups and stuff up and thru $40 easy...with making his own overtime and mostly new construction

[maxster]

that $36.30 is just to be a journeyman,it is up to each tech to go into the bosses office and get what is a hated phrase to owners..."ABOVE SCALE".then the retort is oh waht is scale now and this guy has a 100 techs ..the BS never stops....top OEM chiller techs make up into the $40s with picking their overtime

[ChrisTechMech]

What is a normal house payment in NY? How close to the city do you have to live in those locals? Our JM are about $33/hr. I'm not sure. I haven't really been in it much until recently and I'm an apprentice still.

[MechanicallyInclined]

Were not talking above scale. We're talking scale wage. It doesn't seem the bar is set very high for HVACR Tech/Svc Jm up there. Or is there another classification like Industrial Service Jm?

[maxster]

if you can't live comfortable on $38-$40 hr...$300 for watch coverage 3X a year...unlimited OT you have a major problem..as to living near the hall it doesn't exsist companies paying the gas bill might *****..the union has no input on that.i know techs that work midtown and live 150 miles north of Manhattan and they do the watch????always interesting.one rule that goes in companies here is if your in a service truck you get the watch for a week journey man or not...your out there. monthly house payments $1500-$2000 taxes on a 60' X 150' cape cod style house taxes $7000 yr 20 minutes away from my pix up top 90 minute drive from my YOUTUBE in the sig.

[MechanicallyInclined]

I have found that each local has a different designation for some jobs.

Here we have MES techs and building trades journeyman. Other locals can have Equipment serviceman journeyman, pipifitter journeyman, steam fitter journeyman, and the list goes on and on...

As I understand it, as long as your card says journeyman you are allowed to work on any of the trades the UA covers.

Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?

[ChrisTechMech]

Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?

Zw and I are in the same local. MES apprentice graduates after 5 years and is a Service Man. His company then recommends him (at their discression) for an upgrade. The hall has the tech take a JM test and pay money to be graded. If he passes, he then upgrades to Building Trades as a ____ (fill in the blank) JM. They have different designations for different techs. A lot of guys change companies if they're not upgraded quickly enough for the tech's patience. The typical time frame a guy waits to get referred for an upgrade is usually about 2 years as a Service Man. When he upgrades, he gets a couple dollars and a few other perks too.

[valdelocc]

I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.

[MechanicallyInclined]

Maybe because they can be billed out at around 2.5 times their package cost and for 8 hrs. Example: Tucson BT Service Applied Jm/HVACR Tech cost $50/Hr., sell $125/Hr.

[maxster]

had a chiller guy help me one time on a new start-up 75 ton trane rooftop up on 8' steel with no trap installed...ran it up to cool new space.when i shut it down the condensate connection looked like a 3/4 water line dumping the condensate out....chiller guy asks" why is it leaking water like that" their harmless with there big tonnages and charges.always enjoyed the watch service on the weekends and walking in a chiller down from a friday repair

[allstar08]

I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.

It is due to the cost of the chiller and what it serves. An average chiller costs $250K-$350K and a rebuild runs about $40K. Do you want a guy making $25hr or a guy making $50 an hour working on your machine? It is a specialized trade and in my opinion dying. The centravac is being pushed out by screws and turbocors. It won't be long until it is a turbocors.