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  1. #1

    Confused What exactly is Building Trades in the UA?

    The Local where I'm working at now calls anything within the Pipe Trades - Building Trades. Not considering what my UA card says, out here I'm a "Building Trades Journeyman (Service-HVACR)". A Construction Plumber is a "Building Trades Journeyman (Construction-Plumbing)". In my home Local, Construction is referred to as Building Trades, not Building Trades (Construction) and Service is just Service, not Building Trades (Service). Sorry if I confused anybody because now I'm confused. which way is correct? Keep in mind the variants like "Building Trades Service HVACR Tech Journeyman" or maybe the words being rearranged.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
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    1,985
    I have found that each local has a different designation for some jobs.

    Here we have MES techs and building trades journeyman. Other locals can have Equipment serviceman journeyman, pipifitter journeyman, steam fitter journeyman, and the list goes on and on...

    As I understand it, as long as your card says journeyman you are allowed to work on any of the trades the UA covers.
    UA LU189

    10mm, because it's better than .45acp

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,965
    here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by maxster View Post
    here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/
    Wow. I'm sure there's some kind of reason, but that's just nuts. I think they need more rules. Maybe the A side should pee holding their left hand while B uses their right and every other week they switch. Our guys are like zw17, we're in the same local, MES (mechanical equipment service) techs can work up to a certain tonnage. Anything above that tonnage is covered by Building Trades. Once an MES apprentice graduates from the apprenticeship program he is a Service Man. At any point thereafter he may be able to "upgrade" to a Building Trades Journeyman once certain criteria are met. His card may say any number of things like Refrigeration Fitter, etc. He switches from MES to Building Trades with different benefits and everything. We just share a hall, BA, same window dues, maybe a couple other similarities, but everything else is different. Some, very few, guys choose to stay MES and don't want to upgrade. Yeah... a lot of rules here too with a few disagreements.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    612
    Quote Originally Posted by maxster View Post
    here in NYC we're Metal Trades covering start-ups repairs HVAC and such steamfitters 638B .fitters that actually do the installations,riser piping, towers any thing that handles fluids..are the 638A steamfitters.now when you look at the contractors listing for 638 Steamfitters.... B is service fitters,and A is Building Trades forget about doing any thing you want under UA on a job it is well defined here.get caught with a 24" pipe wrench or B tank over your shoulder unannouced they will be calling the BA in...LUNCH BREAK and then there is this group... http://www.nyspipetrades.org/
    Are you saying your Local is "Metal Trades", but yet you work on heavy metal? That doesn't make sense.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zw17 View Post
    I have found that each local has a different designation for some jobs.

    Here we have MES techs and building trades journeyman. Other locals can have Equipment serviceman journeyman, pipifitter journeyman, steam fitter journeyman, and the list goes on and on...

    As I understand it, as long as your card says journeyman you are allowed to work on any of the trades the UA covers.
    Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
    Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
    As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
    Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
    As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?
    Zw and I are in the same local. MES apprentice graduates after 5 years and is a Service Man. His company then recommends him (at their discression) for an upgrade. The hall has the tech take a JM test and pay money to be graded. If he passes, he then upgrades to Building Trades as a ____ (fill in the blank) JM. They have different designations for different techs. A lot of guys change companies if they're not upgraded quickly enough for the tech's patience. The typical time frame a guy waits to get referred for an upgrade is usually about 2 years as a Service Man. When he upgrades, he gets a couple dollars and a few other perks too.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2004
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    up in the hizzy
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    1,376
    I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.

  9. #9
    Maybe because they can be billed out at around 2.5 times their package cost and for 8 hrs. Example: Tucson BT Service Applied Jm/HVACR Tech cost $50/Hr., sell $125/Hr.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    6,965
    had a chiller guy help me one time on a new start-up 75 ton trane rooftop up on 8' steel with no trap installed...ran it up to cool new space.when i shut it down the condensate connection looked like a 3/4 water line dumping the condensate out....chiller guy asks" why is it leaking water like that" their harmless with there big tonnages and charges.always enjoyed the watch service on the weekends and walking in a chiller down from a friday repair
    "when in doubt...jump it out" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1qEZHhJubY

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,350
    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    I dont get why chiller guys make more money, all they do is bull work and half of them dont know how to fix another piece of equipment and there really isn't that much to chillers.
    It is due to the cost of the chiller and what it serves. An average chiller costs $250K-$350K and a rebuild runs about $40K. Do you want a guy making $25hr or a guy making $50 an hour working on your machine? It is a specialized trade and in my opinion dying. The centravac is being pushed out by screws and turbocors. It won't be long until it is a turbocors.
    I STARTED WITH NOTHING, AND I STILL HAVE MOST OF IT!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
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    1,985
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanicallyInclined View Post
    Does you MES top off at Service Craftman i.e. Serviceman or do you have an MES Jm? Some Locals refer to their HVACR Service as Mechanical Equipment Service. Like I said, it gets real confusing.
    Technically in the Pipe Trades, Plumbing and HVACR can be both Construction and Service (Truck-based). All the other trades Pipefitting/Steamfitting, Pipe Welding, etc. are generally Construction.
    As far as being cross-dispatched, how well would a Construction-Pipefitter Jm fare on an Svc-HVACR Tech Jm dispatch?
    Sorry, took an extended break from the site... To dig this one up out of the pits and answer your question, our MES guys stay MES until the contractor they are working for decides to sponsor them to become a journeyman. There is no hard rule that says they have to sponsor them at all. We have guys that have been MES since the day they got out of the apprenticeship 30+yrs ago. What it comes down to is how well you work, your knowledge base, not taking an absurd amount of days off, etc... If you are valuable to the contractor you will get a shot at what we call "upgrading" to building trades journeyman. Our company typically sponsors 1-2 guys a year for the upgrade.

    I cannot remember the exact limits of MES but I think it's 20tons or under, no new construction, etc.. BTJ can work on everything.

    My card says "Building Trades Journeyman Pipefitter Refrigeration" but I am, and always have been, service and small projects. I went through the service apprenticeship and have never taken a pipefitter class or welding.
    UA LU189

    10mm, because it's better than .45acp

  13. #13
    Being a building trades Apprentice do you still have a chance to work for Hvac-R contractor?

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