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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    So you are telling me that there is an issue with the people of the United States of America not being able to agree with one another?

    The last time I checked we the people are the bosses of government, well there is almost always a closing of business or at least a huge downfall when your boss can't decide what to do and is constantly picking fights with all the other bosses.

    Why can't we meet in the middle instead of being extreme on either side?

    Extremism of all forms has historically been a bad thing....Salem witch trials...the holocaust....the crusades...the Berlin wall....Westboro baptist church...I could go on and on but I hope we all get the point.

    Fighting each other will only end badly and will accomplish nothing. Until we start thinking of ourselves as united, we will have the same government...the same backwards country...and the same BS over and over.

    So terms like leftist, right wingnut, conservative, liberal, are only words of division...meant to keep us confused and arguing while someone takes advantage of us. I've been guilty of using terms like these...but only after I became a member of this forum.
    Perhaps the rhetoric is not helpful to the debate, to that extent I agree with you, but I'm with 6, leftist ideals simply need to be defeated.

    I don't know how to get through to leftists so the debate generally turns ugly. It seems they are hell bent on giving more and more control to our federal government. Once the federal government controls how you get your healthcare, how much you can eat, what you can eat, how you save for your retirement, what kind of car you can drive, what temperature you must set your thermostat etc etc etc..you've got a situation where you must go to the mostly unelected government to ask permission for everything.
    Once the government has control of enough of the population through handouts, government programs and government jobs how long will it be before there are more people who will gladly give more and more powers to the federal government because they are entirely dependant on the government for everything that sustains them?

    You may think this could never happen and I say it's happening now.

    Think about it this way. The right likes to elect people who want to give themselves less authority, and it seems that the left wants to elect people who want to give themselves more authority.
    Human history has no shortage of so called benevolent dictators who always seem to surround themselves with a small and well funded or taken care of ruling class and a large dependant underclass who will support them because of their total dependence.
    Can you say GM, UAW, AFLCIO, GE, the entire green "industry", minority groups, etc etc etc.
    The entire democratic party is nothing but a sham full of payoffs, bribes government kickbacks to loyalists and corporations who are with the program. The entire stimulus package was nothing but a Obama slush fund for buying votes.
    Vote for me and i'll make sure you get a government hand out, your grant, your permit, your loan.etc etc etc.

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Trying to provide better health care will be the downfall of the US. Interesting idea, but other than the rw propaganda could someone explain just how this will lead to the ruination of all we love and hold dear. Most other civilized countries have adopted programs to assure the health of their people since it is in everyones best interest. I find it odd that folks think that our current system is doing so well when the statistics prove otherwise. I don't think links are necessary to prove this point since it is common knowledge that the US ranks pretty low in comparison to other first world nations, I still say there are some who have an unnatural fixation on this current president and would suspect him of evil doing even if he found the cure for cancer. There is no pleasing people who are not willing to discuss and compromise for the betterment of all rather than some ideological pie in the sky vision of the rugged individual. i am truly sorry for those people since the utopia they desire resembles a dog eat dog world where it is every man for himself and the hell with the common good.
    It won't be better first of all and it will be broke just like our social security program, just like our medicare program, just like our entire federal government. And why does the federal government need to do what the individual states are perfectly capable of doing for themselves if they choose.

    There are other things that can be done to bring down healthcare costs besides reducing supply and increasing demand. And where the hell has that ever worked anyway? Did you ever think about that, or is it you don't care what it costs?
    You'll see the cost of healthcare go down when the government starts to de-regulate it. Allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines is a good place to start. 90% of what doctors do is crap that could be done just as well by a GED holder with a little training at devry. Stop requiring a PHD for most of what doctors do and i guarantee the price will come down (increased supply). If you want the phd to stitch you up then you pay for that privilidge. Me, I'll be happy to let a "medical technician" patch me up. Once the docs lose a large chunk of their business they will have to start competing and you won't end up in a jam packed waiting room hoping to get 5 min with your doctor an hour and a half past your appointment time.

    If you like regulation, perhaps a good place to start is to limit payouts on insurance claims. Why should we all pay for a mistake made by a doctor. You think the doctor pays for it or the insurance company pays for the ridiculous awards of millions and millions of dollars? They don't, they just pass it on to the rest of us. But do you think the dems are interested in upsetting their biggest campaign contributors..trial lawyers? I don't think so.

    If this healthcare scam stands, I am confident you will find out the hard way that it is more about controlling what you do and less about delivering better healthcare. The cost will be infinately more than your prized politicians are telling you and no matter how much they tax us for it, it will still be perpetually in the red.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    You do not know what you are talking about! I also suspect you do not speak from experience!

    When comparing the two one only has to do a simple test. Consume each drug separately, alcohol and pot, in an excess amount and see which person can drive a car from point A to point B.

    An average amount of beer consumed is about two beers on an empty stomach and for pot it is about 3 – 4 hits. Now, multiply that consumption by 5 five for each person, put them behind the wheel of a car and measure the driving impairment. There is no comparison.

    Keeping pot illegal for the reasons you just stated is ridiculous. It is running us broke, looses billions of dollars of tax revenue and empowers the drug cartels all because some people have strong opinions about things they know nothing about.

    The only correct assessment you made about pot is that it is a de-motivator…but so is alcohol.
    You are the one who is ignorant of the effects of legalizing pot and what are the effects. Alcohol is legal and it only effects a small percent of the population adversely becoming alcoholics, etc. If pot was legal I would estimate upwards of 90% of our youth would try it and maybe 50% or more would start using it regularly and stop studying, dropout, go on to other poisonous drugs, go to crime and in general ruin there lives.

    It happens all the time but now it would effect a lot more of our youth. Those of you promoting the legalization will be responsible. I have never taken pot but I have first hand experience with it's effects on folks. I had a pot head on my crew until I fired him about 20 years ago.

    He could not work more than 3 to four days a week. Get on pot and couldn't get up early in the morning. That's one example. I know of some smart kids who went to college taken heavy courses in Engineering, etc. but got on pot and had to drop it and take some easy liberal arts courses or just drop out all together because they could no longer study hard like they used too.

    Yeah legalize pot and destroy our youth and it will be the fault of you and others wanting to legalize the poison . Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them."
    Barry Goldwater

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    You are the one who is ignorant of the effects of legalizing pot and what are the effects. Alcohol is legal and it only effects a small percent of the population adversely becoming alcoholics, etc. If pot was legal I would estimate upwards of 90% of our youth would try it and maybe 50% or more would start using it regularly and stop studying, dropout, go on to other poisonous drugs, go to crime and in general ruin there lives.

    It happens all the time but now it would effect a lot more of our youth. Those of you promoting the legalization will be responsible. I have never taken pot but I have first hand experience with it's effects on folks. I had a pot head on my crew until I fired him about 20 years ago.

    He could not work more than 3 to four days a week. Get on pot and couldn't get up early in the morning. That's one example. I know of some smart kids who went to college taken heavy courses in Engineering, etc. but got on pot and had to drop it and take some easy liberal arts courses or just drop out all together because they could no longer study hard like they used too.

    Yeah legalize pot and destroy our youth and it will be the fault of you and others wanting to legalize the poison . Thank you, thank you very much
    Everything effects us all differently....I've known some people who smoke pot that were some of the smartest people I've ever met. On the other hand I've seen people that pot has completely destroyed....and the same thing goes for alcohol...too many people can't handle their liquor.

    I've been on both sides of the issue with pot...for it and against it.....now I think it is one of those things that should be left for the people to decide themselves....the majority of people that smoke it legal will have tried it being illegal anyway.

    I wouldn't smoke it...been there done that and pot ruined part of my life, but at least we wouldn't be spending billions of dollars and destroying our children's lives if we legalized it.

    Think about it...if kids smoke pot, some of them will quit it and never smoke it again, and another portion of them will continue to be more intelligent than you and I....but if we lock those same kids up their lives will be completely changed forever because they have a drug charge on their record.

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    You are the one who is ignorant of the effects of legalizing pot and what are the effects. Alcohol is legal and it only effects a small percent of the population adversely becoming alcoholics, etc. If pot was legal I would estimate upwards of 90% of our youth would try it and maybe 50% or more would start using it regularly and stop studying, dropout, go on to other poisonous drugs, go to crime and in general ruin there lives.

    It happens all the time but now it would effect a lot more of our youth. Those of you promoting the legalization will be responsible. I have never taken pot but I have first hand experience with it's effects on folks. I had a pot head on my crew until I fired him about 20 years ago.

    He could not work more than 3 to four days a week. Get on pot and couldn't get up early in the morning. That's one example. I know of some smart kids who went to college taken heavy courses in Engineering, etc. but got on pot and had to drop it and take some easy liberal arts courses or just drop out all together because they could no longer study hard like they used too.

    Yeah legalize pot and destroy our youth and it will be the fault of you and others wanting to legalize the poison . Thank you, thank you very much
    That is a classic. You have never smoked pot and I am the ignorant one. Wow! How can you write such nonsense on a public forum?

    In case you haven’t checked lately, pot is legal in California when following certain loopholes. There are stores on every street corner that sell it legally. Cops and cities cannot stop it, nor do they want to. When cops catch people with it they seldom write them up and just dump it out because they know it is nowhere near as strong as alcohol.

    Any kid that wants to try it is not waiting for the full legalization of it. They can get it anytime they want right now easier than getting alcohol. So where is your 50% data?

    As for your experience with people who smoke pot, the guy who worked for you was probably a deadbeat anyway. Who’s to say he would do any better with only abusing alcohol? The students who dropped out of college probably smoked pot all along but were not disciplined enough for those tough courses. Pot does impair or discourage studying, but so does alcohol, laziness, girlfriends, social activities, poor study habits, hobbies and a general lack of interest in your courses.

    There are a lot of good and bad people that make livings by keeping it illegal but it is running us broke, filling our courtrooms, prisons and empowering Mexican cartels. You should weigh out the costs with better information.

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    That is a classic. You have never smoked pot and I am the ignorant one. Wow! How can you write such nonsense on a public forum?

    In case you haven’t checked lately, pot is legal in California when following certain loopholes. There are stores on every street corner that sell it legally. Cops and cities cannot stop it, nor do they want to. When cops catch people with it they seldom write them up and just dump it out because they know it is nowhere near as strong as alcohol.

    Any kid that wants to try it is not waiting for the full legalization of it. They can get it anytime they want right now easier than getting alcohol. So where is your 50% data?

    As for your experience with people who smoke pot, the guy who worked for you was probably a deadbeat anyway. Who’s to say he would do any better with only abusing alcohol? The students who dropped out of college probably smoked pot all along but were not disciplined enough for those tough courses. Pot does impair or discourage studying, but so does alcohol, laziness, girlfriends, social activities, poor study habits, hobbies and a general lack of interest in your courses.

    There are a lot of good and bad people that make livings by keeping it illegal but it is running us broke, filling our courtrooms, prisons and empowering Mexican cartels. You should weigh out the costs with better information.
    Funny I have to smoke pot and ruin my life before I can comment on what I have seen and observed from pot smokers. You are the classic here.

    I can read and observe with my senses and do not have to shoot myself to know that that is bad for me or anyone else. Same with pot. I will say again the IMHO pot will destroy a much higher percentage of folks taking it than those who drink.

    And only a small percentage who drink will become alcoholics whereas a IMHO a sizable group of pot smokers will be destroyed by its effects. So the effects of pot are worse than alcohol. That is what I firmly believe and you can promote legalizing pot if you want but never for me. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them."
    Barry Goldwater

  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Everything effects us all differently....I've known some people who smoke pot that were some of the smartest people I've ever met. On the other hand I've seen people that pot has completely destroyed....and the same thing goes for alcohol...too many people can't handle their liquor.

    I've been on both sides of the issue with pot...for it and against it.....now I think it is one of those things that should be left for the people to decide themselves....the majority of people that smoke it legal will have tried it being illegal anyway.

    I wouldn't smoke it...been there done that and pot ruined part of my life, but at least we wouldn't be spending billions of dollars and destroying our children's lives if we legalized it.

    Think about it...if kids smoke pot, some of them will quit it and never smoke it again, and another portion of them will continue to be more intelligent than you and I....but if we lock those same kids up their lives will be completely changed forever because they have a drug charge on their record.
    By keeping it illegal at least it takes some effort and "expense" to purchase it. If you make it legal then it will be considered acceptable and you can smoke in anywhere and everywhere and not just in some areas of California where nobody cares about anything or anybody.

    I say make it like a traffic ticket if you get caught and offer rehab to those who want it and let the those who want to destroy themselves do so but not by letting them buy it legally. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them."
    Barry Goldwater

  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    By keeping it illegal at least it takes some effort and "expense" to purchase it. If you make it legal then it will be considered acceptable and you can smoke in anywhere and everywhere and not just in some areas of California where nobody cares about anything or anybody.

    I say make it like a traffic ticket if you get caught and offer rehab to those who want it and let the those who want to destroy themselves do so but not by letting them buy it legally. Thank you, thank you very much
    Wrong....pot is more available to kids now and more dangerous than if it were legal because there is no regulation on it...dealers can lace it with whatever other drug they want to get kids addicted so that they will buy more.

    Smoking it anywhere and everywhere is not the case...at least not in Arkansas where they have made smoking tobacco in public buildings and anywhere near the entrance to a building illegal.

    So you are against spending tax dollars on keeping the nation healthy...but you are for spending tax dollars to chase a wild goose that will never be caught in order to keep the nation healthy? I'm confused.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Wrong....pot is more available to kids now and more dangerous than if it were legal because there is no regulation on it...dealers can lace it with whatever other drug they want to get kids addicted so that they will buy more.

    Smoking it anywhere and everywhere is not the case...at least not in Arkansas where they have made smoking tobacco in public buildings and anywhere near the entrance to a building illegal.

    So you are against spending tax dollars on keeping the nation healthy...but you are for spending tax dollars to chase a wild goose that will never be caught in order to keep the nation healthy? I'm confused.
    Lower your intake of the chemical THC and your confusion will slowly abate.

    Now no one is trying to end POT smoking but making it illegal would do far more harm than good.

    In Amsterdam where they are actually tightening up on marijuana forms of the drug can be purchased that are excessively potent.

    http://www.alternet.org/drugs/42891/

    Now why would such a liberal Country crack down on coffee houses if marijuana is so harmless ?

    More facts about the damage marijuana does.

    THC Affects Brain Functioning

    THC is up to no good in the brain. THC finds brain cells, or neurons, with specific kinds of receptors called cannabinoid receptors and binds to them.

    Certain parts of the brain have high concentrations of cannabinoid receptors. These areas are the hippocampus, the cerebellum, the basal ganglia, and the cerebral cortex. The functions that these brain areas control are the ones most affected by marijuana.

    For example, THC interferes with learning and memory—that is because the hippocampus—a part of the brain with a funny name and a big job—plays a critical role in certain types of learning. Disrupting its normal functioning can lead to problems studying, learning new things, and recalling recent events. The difficulty can be a lot more serious than forgetting if you took out the trash this morning, which happens to everyone once in a while.

    Do these effects persist? We don’t know for sure, but as adolescents your brains are still developing. So is it really worth the risk?



    Marijuana Use Increases Heart Rate

    Within a few minutes after inhaling marijuana smoke, an individual's heart begins beating more rapidly, the bronchial passages relax and become enlarged, and blood vessels in the eyes expand, making the eyes look red. The heart rate, normally 70 to 80 beats per minute, may increase by 20 to 50 beats per minute or, in some cases, even double. This effect can be greater if other drugs are taken with marijuana.


    The Brain

    When people smoke marijuana for years, they can suffer some pretty negative consequences. For example, because marijuana affects brain function, your ability to do complex tasks could be compromised, as well as your pursuit of academic, athletic, or other life goals that require you to be 100-percent focused and alert. In fact, people who use marijuana over the long term report less life satisfaction, poorer education, and job achievement, and more interpersonal problems compared to people who do not use marijuana.


    Marijuana also may affect your mental health. Studies show that early marijuana use may increase your risk of developing psychosis if you have a genetic vulnerability to the disease. Psychosis is a severe mental disorder in which there is a loss of contact with reality, including false ideas about what is happening (delusions) and seeing or hearing things that aren’t there (hallucinations). Marijuana also has been associated with depression and anxiety, but more research is necessary to confirm and better understand that relationship

    Lungs and Airways

    People who abuse marijuana are at risk of injuring their lungs through exposure to respiratory irritants and carcinogens found in marijuana smoke. The smoke from marijuana contains some of the same chemicals found in tobacco smoke; plus, marijuana users tend to inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer, so more smoke enters the lungs. Not surprisingly, people who smoke marijuana have some of the same breathing problems as those who smoke tobacco—they are more susceptible to chest colds, coughs, and bronchitis than people who do not smoke. And, even though we don’t know yet whether or how marijuana use affects the risk for lung and other cancers—why take the risk?


    What About Medical Marijuana?
    Under U.S. law since 1970, marijuana has been a Schedule I controlled substance. This means that the drug has no approved medical use. However, there are medications containing synthetic THC, the main active ingredient in marijuana, that are used to treat nausea in cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy, and to stimulate appetite in patients with wasting syndrome—severe, involuntary weight loss—due to AIDS.

    Since the discovery of the cannabinoid system—receptors in the body that bind THC, and chemicals that act as these receptors—scientists are actively looking for ways to use this system for medical purposes. Several promising compounds are being tested for the treatment of obesity, pain, and other disorders. However, it is unlikely that smoked marijuana will be developed as a medication because of its negative health effects.


    1. National Institute on Drug Abuse. Marijuana: Facts for Teens (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publication...na-facts-teens). NIH Pub. No. 04-4037. Bethesda, MD. NIDA, NIH, DHHS. Revised March 2011. Retrieved February 2012.

    2. National Institute on Drug Abuse. Marijuana: Facts Parents Need to Know (http://www.drugabuse.gov/publication...s-need-to-know). NIH Pub. No. 07-4036. Bethesda, MD. NIDA, NIH, DHHS. Revised March 2011. Retrieved February 2012.

    3. National Institute on Drug Abuse. Monitoring the Future. National Results on Adolescent Drug Use. Overview of Key Findings 2011.
    (http://monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/...erview2011.pdf). Bethesda, MD. NIDA, NIH, DHHS. February 2012. Retrieved February 2012.

    4. National Institute on Drug Abuse. NIDA Research Report: Marijuana Abuse (http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/Marijuana/
    default.html). NIH Pub. No. 10-3859. Bethesda, MD. NIDA, NIH, DHHS. Revised September 2010. Retrieved February 2012.

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