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  1. #1
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    Sep 2005
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    Is it freedom, or is it govt control?

    By Greg Hunter’s USAWatchdog.com (Revised)
    Ever since the original Patriot Act was passed by Congress in 2001, American civil liberties have steadily shrunk and government control has steadily grown. In a financial crisis, your bank or brokerage can severely restrict the amount of money you can withdraw from your accounts. The government can now assassinate so-called terrorists anywhere in the world, including on U.S. soil. Think Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born radical Muslim cleric who was assassinated by a U.S. drone strike in September.
    It can also indefinitely detain suspected terrorists without charge or due process, all thanks to the National Defense Authorization Act recently signed into law by the President. The government can shut down a website anywhere in the world without due process, just ask Megaupload owner Kim Dotcom from New Zealand. (Yes, that’s his real name.)
    As of last Friday, President Obama has authorized the government to take just about whatever it needs in the name of national defense. It is an Executive Order appropriately called “National Defense Resources Preparedness (NDRP).” This allows members of Obama’s Cabinet to take resources such as livestock, water, fuel, farm equipment, vehicles, planes, boats, food and just about anything the government thinks it needs for “defense preparedness.” I am just skimming the surface here as there are many more details in the order. (Click here for the complete Executive Order — National Defense Resources Preparedness – NDRP.) Many are calling this a setup for peacetime martial law. After reading the Executive Order, I don’t see how anyone could disagree with this statement.
    My question is why? If all that happened was an extension of the Patriot Act in 2011, I might not worry that much (although, Congress basically traded liberty for so-called security.) But when you look at several of the government’s big power grabbing moves, you can’t help but ask what are they getting ready for? Is it a Middle East war that will probably turn into world war? Is it another financial meltdown worse than the one in 2008? Or, is it all of the above?
    On the war question, I have written many posts that say war is a “when” not an “if” scenario. Just last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he did not need the approval of the U.S. to attack Iran. Iran has said it has the right to strike first if it feels necessary. Now, there are reports of Russian troops landing in Syria. The U.N. calls this development a “bomb.” The world hasn’t been this close to a global war since the late 1930’s. War would plunge the world into a deep depression so fast that many could be wiped out financially literally overnight.
    Another financial meltdown is not just probable but highly likely. In my opinion, and many other experts, another financial crash is also a question of “when” and not “if.” The Fed pumped out $16 trillion in the wake of the last meltdown, and it has frozen interest rates at near 0% through 2014. Talk of a so-called “recovery” is preposterous with a record 46.5 million Americans on food stamps and declining home values despite near record low mortgage rates. Sure, the stock market has doubled since 2009, but it was cut in half after the 2008 meltdown. How is anyone making money? Charles Biderman of the Wall Street research firm “Trim Tabs” recently said, the increase in stocks came mainly from trillions of dollars of new money printed by the Fed. (Click here to hear Mr. Biderman.) Shouldn’t this have fixed the economy? Shouldn’t the banks be able to go back to “mark to market” accounting and not value real estate and mortgage-backed securities at whatever the bankers think they will fetch in the distant future? No way is that going to happen because nothing is fixed from the last meltdown. The failing economy was just papered over with trillions of freshly printed dollars.
    Economist Dr. Marc Faber of Gloomdoomandboom.com agrees the economy has been propped up by money printing, but that will not stop a financial crash forever. In a recent interview, he said, “. . . I think eventually the financial system will be an MF Global where you don’t get your money back from the banks and the investment banks and from the mutual funds and so forth and so on. And, so I think everybody has to think to himself, how do I protect myself against such a black swan event.” (Click here for the complete interview from ChrisMartenson.com) Dr. Faber is recommending physical gold and silver as portfolio insurance. (FYI, Faber also recommended buying stocks in 2009, at the very bottom of the last financial meltdown.)
    The stock market is not the only part of the economy facing a crash. Star banking analyst Meredith Whitney says there is a “tidal wave” of municipal bond defaults coming. Moneynews.com reported last week, “In late 2010, Whitney told 60 Minutes that municipal defaults could run up into the hundreds of billions of dollars although that hasn’t happened. Maybe not officially, but insolvency is a deepening problem, and defaults are still on the way. . . . So there’s been every effort on the part of the states to prevent this tidal wave of defaults, which is going to happen sooner or later. It’s happening at an accelerating pace. . . .You’re either willing to see it or you’ll shut your eyes, and if people want to tell me, ‘Oh, I was wrong,’ because this hasn’t played out, stay tuned.” (Click here for more on the story.)
    I’m betting Ms. Whitney is right, and I think the government is betting the same way. Maybe our leaders feel they have to make all of these liberty killing moves to maintain the union in a financial catastrophe? Maybe the government sees an ominous world war on the horizon? Whatever it sees, it is definitely not good times ahead, and it can’t be that far away. The moves the government has made are not for liberty and freedom–it’s all about control.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    53
    The New National Defense Authorization Act Is Ridiculously Scary … Fellow Americans, anyone who still cares about this country at all – this is a must read: By the end of this week, the US government very likely will have the power to lock up US citizens for life at Guantanamo Bay or other military prisons – without charge and without trial. This means that, in the near future, a controversial Twitter post, Facebook post, attending a peaceful protest, or publishing an anti-Congress critique or anti-TSA rant on Google+ could land you “indefinite detention” for life, in the wording of the bill. No access to a lawyer, no access to trial.

    For those who say it's all Obama's fault the Republicans are just as guilty. Remember the Patriot Act.
    Virtually the Entire GOP Is Also Dedicated to Fascism, Mass Murder, and the Police State.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    S.E. Pa
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    6,205

    Thumbs down crossed the line

    Look scooterboy, you may be free to speak your mind about most things but when you accuse most of the GOP with mass murder, you crossed the line. That is a personal insult not to mention backwards as it is the Left who has spawned the murder of the unborn, the accidentally born and wants to bump off the aged and infirmed. It is and always has been the Left who are the fascists which equals police state. You need to do your homework and read some history instead of communist propaganda.

    As for your first point about how scary this act is yes, you have a point there. Sure, I'm worried Obama will gulag me along with millions who don't support his march to communism. You have a right to express those sentiments. But when you start calling people mass murderers, esp. with no supporting evidence, I think you need to re-think your participation here.

    Thank you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Near Atlanta, GA.
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    14,540
    Quote Originally Posted by easyrider View Post
    The New National Defense Authorization Act Is Ridiculously Scary … Fellow Americans, anyone who still cares about this country at all – this is a must read: By the end of this week, the US government very likely will have the power to lock up US citizens for life at Guantanamo Bay or other military prisons – without charge and without trial. This means that, in the near future, a controversial Twitter post, Facebook post, attending a peaceful protest, or publishing an anti-Congress critique or anti-TSA rant on Google+ could land you “indefinite detention” for life, in the wording of the bill. No access to a lawyer, no access to trial.

    For those who say it's all Obama's fault the Republicans are just as guilty. Remember the Patriot Act.
    Virtually the Entire GOP Is Also Dedicated to Fascism, Mass Murder, and the Police State.
    You mean the Patriot Act that Obama and the Democrats renewed? That one?

    Anyway...the part about mass murder was a bit over the line. Please tone down the rhetoric a bit.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I'm an old cowhand from the Rio Grande
    Posts
    17,089
    Is it freedom or govt. control.




    I'd say it is more tin foil hat hysteria.

    No more reality-based than the pass-along e-mails that ga-hvac-tech bombards this forum with on a regular basis.


    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/ndrp.asp
    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

    Chapman Cohen

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California/Nevada
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    3,648
    the Patriot Act
    the prototype was implemented by Bill Clinton, the bill was signed by GW Bush.
    and it will be supported by every Obama/Romney kind of candidate that enters the White House.


    it's a disgusting piece of legislation that trades liberty for a false sence of security.

    one terrorist attack and every American is now effected by the law.

    on the anniversary on 9/11 the government said there was a van missing, and proceeded to fill NY with armed soldiers.

    guys like Ron Paul don't win , so we are heading for a lot more hardship.
    4 years minimum

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    3,987
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfstrike View Post
    the Patriot Act
    the prototype was implemented by Bill Clinton, the bill was signed by GW Bush.
    and it will be supported by every Obama/Romney kind of candidate that enters the White House.


    it's a disgusting piece of legislation that trades liberty for a false sence of security.

    one terrorist attack and every American is now effected by the law.

    on the anniversary on 9/11 the government said there was a van missing, and proceeded to fill NY with armed soldiers.

    guys like Ron Paul don't win , so we are heading for a lot more hardship.
    4 years minimum
    And when those soldiers took to the streets, did they start carting away innocent law abiding citizens never to be seen again? Until you see things like that the vast majority of people will support things like the patriot act. Most people especially in the wake of 9/11 are willing to trade some freedom for some security. And the election process will continue to show that.

  8. #8
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    Jun 2002
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    Dacula, GA
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    12,637
    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    And when those soldiers took to the streets, did they start carting away innocent law abiding citizens never to be seen again? Until you see things like that the vast majority of people will support things like the patriot act. Most people especially in the wake of 9/11 are willing to trade some freedom for some security. And the election process will continue to show that.
    I'll second that. Thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    SE Michigan
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    Definitely about government control.

    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

    Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.

    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

    In our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible.

    One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes a revolution in order to establish a dictatorship.

    Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  10. #10
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    Feb 2007
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    Helena, Montana
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    Not comparing to Hitler directly, but the way Hitler moved to power in Germany and the way our Government is moving show a lot of similarities. Scary similarities....
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    SE Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    Not comparing to Hitler directly, but the way Hitler moved to power in Germany and the way our Government is moving show a lot of similarities. Scary similarities....
    Absolutely!
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  12. #12
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    Oct 2002
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
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    4,394
    Freedom, now there is an ideology that most dont understand, for early on you have been programmed to believe the illusion of freedom. Open up your wallet and look at all the numbers your assigned, did you have those numbers imprinted on you, voluntarily?? Or have they been given to you at birth without your concent ??

    Why would a goverment in a supposed free nation want to imprint a number on you, last time I saw such a numbering on those who had one, ended up in consentration camps, and it didnt end well as we all know.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhr0u...eature=related


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nevada
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    The Patriot act detention provisions should only apply to non-US citizens.
    No property should be able to be confiscated by a cabinet member, they should have to ask to use my pen! Congress should have to approve all wartime confiscation of material and just compensation should be given ASAP.
    Quote
    “Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own." Scott Adams

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
    Albert Einstein

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