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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    894

    gossip is gossip, opinions are opinions

    this is a copy of what carrier put out against the cleaneffects, and it is tranes response. kinda hard to read, but it can be seen.

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=110715

    cleaneffects is head and shoulders above an eac, the industry cannot compete with this "whole" house air cleaner, and in such a least restrictive way.

    filters should be sold properly, not promised or suggested at their potential. hence, uv lights, sold to be a cure all. if sold properly, they wouldn't be such a hot seller. uv's don't clean air as many jabronis sell em to.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Gaylord, Michigan
    Posts
    729
    Originally posted by not a filter expert
    You are right on my comments, however there are some credible products that you may want to look into:

    Honeywell has a number of products, as does Aprilaire. I would suggest something standalone with its own supply and return, independent from the HVAC system running 24/7. Honeywell F500, Lifebreath TFP, PureAir Systems, there are many, many others. 99.97 HEPA Quality air, to no one's surprise - Trane is 99.98% efficient at a CADR scale - used ONLY for room air conditioners.

    Where are you a Trane Dealer? All the big rebates that Trane offers in my area tie into the Air Cleaner being installed.


    Originally posted by Christheheatingdude
    Originally posted by not a filter expert
    Don't take this as a slam on Trane, I have been a dealer for 18+ years - simply don't like their strong arm approach to promoting this product:

    Nice article, manufacturers getting into air filtration for the wrong reasons...consumers best interest not considered.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/14152659.htm

    Trane tries to sell this as their own revolutionary filtration product, it is not. In fact it is designed by a company that manufacturers commercial air cleaner devices, more specifically for oil and mist. Just because a product is marketed well, and 'independent lab test results' are published; doesn't mean it works.

    What strong arm approach would that be? I don't see anything like what you are saying, and I am a Trane dealer as well.

    That article is nothing but opinion, there is no basis in factual evidence. Further, they seem to be talking about standalone units like the Ionic breeze.

    You are correct that Trane did not design the unit, in fact most major manufacturers wanted that product, Trane just won rights to it. And not forever, I believe it was a period of only a few years.

    People have been buying those Ionic breezes and other brands for years. It only makes sense that HVAC manufacturers should try to enter the market. What other appliance has the ability to filter the air for the entire house?

    There is nothing wrong with presenting factual evidence that these units may not live up to their claims. But I have seen nothing like this from you. In fact, you have replied to each and every thread about IAQ, with the same post.

    Lets see some facts not opinions.
    I am a dealer in Northern Michigan, and as a matter of fact I just got the info for this years rebates, the Clean Effects does not figure into it all that much. Still the same basic spiel as last year. XL19i and XV are worth the most so on down the line. Clean Effects is not a huge factor in it. In fact in a XLi system you can use a thermostat instead of clean effects and still get the big money rebates.

    Clean Effects is a good product, but it is totally up to you to sell what you like. You can never sell something you don't believe in.

    Good Luck, and happy selling!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,311
    The Aprilaire 5000 needs a filter change typically about once a year. The Trane unit needs much more maintenance. For that reason I prefer Aprilaire.

    However the Aprilaire 5000 has some serious static pressure drop especially under high CFM (about .3" at 2000 CFM). Add in the static pressure drop of an air conditioner coil and some furnaces will immediately run outside the manufacturers recommended operating range. For that reason I only recommend the Aprilaire 5000/2200/2400 on systems with variable speed blowers whereas the Trane unit has much less static resistance and would be better suited for standard furnaces.

  4. #17
    http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/residair...onal%20Factors

    In response to the Consumer Reports comment, this may be somewhat biased, but there is some truth to this info:

    http://www.aircleaners.com/consumerreports2.phtml

    EPA's Response to IAQ:

    Recommendation
    The public is advised to use proven methods of controlling indoor air pollution. These methods include eliminating or controlling pollutant sources, increasing outdoor air ventilation, and using proven methods of air cleaning.


    Originally posted by kevinmac
    Well I can post factual evidence, I do not have the Clean Effects but I do have the earlier Trane EAC. I can without hesitation state that my house has less dust then when it had the standard high density filter. My wife loves it since she does not have to dust as often. Cleaning the EAC every 60 days of use ( according to the run time on the thermo) and cleaning the prefilter every 30 days is not a major chore! The blower cage seems to not have much of a dust deposit. There is no smell of ozone in the house. There are multiple adjustments for ozone. Cleaning the plates is easy, spray bottle of greased lightning, spray all the plates, let it sit for a few, rinse it off with a hose, let it dry in the sun. While doing this I use a regular filter in place of the pre filter until the EAC is totally dry.
    Consumer reports rated the Honeywell and Trane EAC to be the most effecient, with little airflow resistance, and better cleaned air.
    It works!
    The Clean Effects is supposed to be even better.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    435
    The Trane EAC conforms to ASHRAE standard 52.1-92 atmospheric dust spot effeciency. Thats how they measured >80% effectivenss ratio.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3
    When you say "kills" I'd watch that statement if I were you. No IAQ can kill. Prove it, if you say so.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Originally posted by techguys
    When you say "kills" I'd watch that statement if I were you. No IAQ can kill. Prove it, if you say so.
    Check Carrier's website,it's their claim,and of course there is a "down to X microns" disclaimer,but they claim it "kills"..

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Connecticut
    Posts
    841
    Aprilaire mod 5000 is my choice,they work well, customers like them and I make money on selling them and replacement filters.We all win.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    894
    Originally posted by dash
    Originally posted by techguys
    When you say "kills" I'd watch that statement if I were you. No IAQ can kill. Prove it, if you say so.
    Check Carrier's website,it's their claim,and of course there is a "down to X microns" disclaimer,but they claim it "kills"..
    As you note, it's Carriers claim. CleanEffects is independently tested.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    33
    Originally posted by dash
    So far I like the Carrier Air Purifier,captures and "kills" the nasty stuff(so no one is exposed),no cleaning ,just a pleated cartridge to replace.
    How does this carrier system compare to an Aprilaire 2200? Is that the same kind of filter system? How about cost? The aprilaire system is about $150 for the system and the filter cartridge costs about $25. I think it lasts a good 6 months to one year. How about the carrier filter system you mentioned.


  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Price ,which is not allowede here is ,considerably more .

    Different type of filtering process,then Aprilaire.

    Any 4" MERV 8 (higher Merv is better)is a lot better filter then a standard glass filter and worth the money,IMHO,to clean the air you breathe and keep the equipment clean.


  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chelmsford MA
    Posts
    1,518
    This will be a never ending battle about air cleaners...shame. If it makes your air cleaner and the HO notices a difference than it works. If no noticable difference than make the installing contractor take it out if you are not satisfied. I don't know why we continue to battle each other on this, they both work and if the HO is happy with it than we did a good thing for them.
    We only want to do it, if we can do it right.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Linden Hills
    Posts
    29

    Exclamation The Truth - if you can handle the truth

    I have seen apples to apples (same air flow 300 FPM and test conditions on all) LMS test data on Trane / AM Standard CleanEffects, Carrier, HON, Aprilaire. I can tell you what the data says by the independent LMS test lab. It says Aprilaire 5000 is a good performing unit - MERV 14, Carrier new unit works good MERV 14/15, HON Cell EAC MERV 14, and Trane CleanEffects is a bomb. It doesn't hold efficiency over time (like within days / months of use) - it is not worth the money. Also Trane unit has real potenital issue with "Space Charging" where after filter loads, the charged particles what dont have media to attrack to, go thru unit and are all charged up and attract to other space in the home - like walls, drapes, carpet, etc. Trane should be commended for good marketing and salesmenship - but not for a good product. Too much sizzzle, not enough steak... Much the same as Sharper Image... They missed the mark on this one, and I fear as a Trane fan it may hurt their brand & reputation, longer term. If you listened to the ASD 3rd qtr investor call, the CEO says they pumped $30M into first year marketing - and that they won't do that again. In fact, when you listen to the investor call - public record on the ASD web site - you will hear him state 2-3 times that $30M was a 1x event. You will see Trane dramaticlaly pull back investments on CleanEffects in 2007 and beyond. It is not ture that other manufactures lost out on rights to the product - the insider thruth is others - such as market leaders Aprilaire and HON (who the vendor went to first), evaluated (tested) the technology and passed on it because they saw it had low performance and a high price. It boils down to a few things for a consumer - 1) do you want to toss or wash? Wash for the 50% of consumer who are "green" minded = EAC cell solution. Toss = Aprilaire 5000, Carrier Unit, or other media. 2) pay now, pay later - wash = maybe more now, less later. Toss = maybe less now, more on going costs with annually replacements, 3) performance - Aprilaire 5000, HON EAC, Carrier Infinity all offer farily similar performance 4) application - Carrier and RP units are quite wide and limit some applications, 5) overall cost / vs overall value. The new Carrier unit performs well, but the repalcement filter cost are VERY high. At the end of the day, probably best choice is Wash = HON EAC or other cell EAC, Toss = Aprilaire 5000, other other high efficiency media - HON F200 is cheap with RF filter indicator and is a MERV 13. Carrier good, but too expensive on replacements. Trane expensive and doesn't perform. As a dealer - let Trane risk their reputation, but don't risk yours, especially when there are many other good choices out there.

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