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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,278

    Super DUMB when it comes to how bills get passed

    Super DUMB when it comes to how bills get passed and as to how they become law/reverse the present law… I have always assumed that once a bill enters the House and gets Passed, that it is forwarded to the Senate for their approval and then to POTUS… OR back and forth till they both agree and then to the POTUS….

    I have two bills that I have been supporting HR 4094 and S.2372

    HR 4094 passed in the House today as part of package deal of HR 2578. Not sure “if” there one in the same at this point or “if” they are presented as individual bills going to?

    Now I hear 2 different things, that it goes to the POTUS and that’s it a pass/no pass by the POTUS “Or” it’s headed to the Senate for a vote there, then to the POTUS?

    The HR 4094 bill was introduced first and the Senate version S.2372 later. How does one reference the other or do they? Are they separate?

    My apologizes in advance for being dumb.

    I know you guys know

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,052

    Exclamation

    Spending bills must originate in the House. Otherwise, the Senate can introduce bills, too. Either house of Congress can introduce legislation at the request of the POTUS. Let's say the House writes a spending bill. It goes back and forth through a number of committess. Influential men can have it expedited to the House floor for a vote or it may take a yr or more or it may die in cmte. If the House passes it, it goes to the Senate who then goes through a similar process. They often tweak it renaming it Senate Bill SB 123xyz and send it back to the House tellling them either adopt the Senate version or no ticky-no washy. Then it goes to the hallways and backrooms where the special interests and lobbyists REALLY kick in to sway votes. Once they agree in secret on what the other will accept it goes back to the floor for a vote. If both houses pass the bill it is sent to the POTUS. He can sign it into law, veto it or let it sit long enough until it become law without his signature.

    Remember, Congress passes laws, esp. spending and provides for defense. The SCOTUS rules on the constitutionality of laws or the application of laws--they aren't supposed to legislate from the bench (Ooops! Too late!), The POTUS is charged with enforcing the laws---not ignoring them, not re-writing them and not being a dictator. That's it.

    HTH,

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Near Atlanta, GA.
    Posts
    14,433

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,278
    Okay,

    Yesterday HR4094 Passed through the House as part of Packaged Bill HR 2578.

    S.2372 was introduced to the Senate on 4/26 by Senator Burr and Senator Hagan. This goes to the Subcommittee on National Parks 6/27, one week from now.

    The question is: Does the bill that passed yesterday go to the Senate as S.4094 "or" S2578 "or" does it merge somehow with the existing bill that has been introduced in the Senate "or" does become it's own number?

    "and"

    When passed in the House as a Packaged Bill containing several Bill's does it remain a "packaged" bill "or" do they go back to being "separate" Bills as they originated?

    The reason I would like to know is: I have been writing all of the Senators for awhile now for support and have been mentioning HR4094. I now to need to know "if" I need to alter that to suit the Senate version of?

    Here is the most recent draft of the next letter to All Senator's, maybe this help in what I am looking to do?

    Senator,

    I am a Maryland resident with very strong ties to the people in the OBX North Carolina and I support HR 4094 and the Senate bill S.2372 supporting the same.

    I am a 2nd generation Maryland resident that has been going to the OBX since birth, I am 44 years of age now. My Mother and Father, whom has loved the OBX for longer then I, are no longer capable of going there due to the current restrictions set in place.

    My mother is wheel chair bound and has been for quite some time now, my father is just not as capable as he was, in what seems to me as just being yesterday that he was. Neither of them are capable to make the very extensive trek to the beach since these unjust restrictions have been set in place and thus we have been unable to return since.

    The “previous” access stipulations not only provided access for us to enjoy a beach with my parents, but with my wife, children and grandchildren. Now we are “all” unable to attend this National “Recreational” Seashore at Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. This “was” a place for the handicapped to be able access and for my parents, children and grandchildren to do simple things like fly a kite and enjoy the seashore together.

    Please allow me to present some information and facts that I know you would be in support of on these Bills:

    Cape Hatteras National Seashore was authorized as the nation's first national seashore in 1937, and has been managed by the National Park Service (NPS) for more than 50 years. The Seashore is a key part of North Carolina's coastal economy and a favorite destination for beachgoers from around the country. The beaches of Hatteras Island are among the nation's best because they offer an opportunity for visitors to enjoy a natural landscape largely untouched by human development. To do so, however, many park visitors utilize Off Road Vehicles (ORVs) to access the remote recreational areas of the island.
    The NPS has tried to establish as factual, that the Piping Plover is indigenous to Hatteras Island, and because of their small numbers, are somehow subject to extinction, neither of which is true. Piping Plovers thrive where they "are" indigenous. The NPS has used this rhetoric to strengthen their agenda of closing down access to our public beaches by creating a make believe crisis to the eco system. The only crisis to the eco system on Hatteras Island is being perpetrated by the NPS, not the residents or visiting public. Within just a two year period (2010,2011) the NPS set 19,025 traps, resulting in 857 species trapped, 102 of which were cats. Among other species that were trapped and killed were raccoons, opossums, minks, nutria, coyotes, red fox, and gray fox.....all for a bird that is not indigenous to the island. It is tragic that this is permitted in modern society. If the Park Service wants to increase the population of the Piping Plover, wisdom would dictate, and the humane solution to the problem would be to trap the Piping Plover and raise them and release them back into the wild, "not" to kill hundreds and hundreds of our precious wildlife animals.

    There are “NO” endangered birds nesting here. The closest you can get is a minuscule segment of the Atlantic coast population of Piping Plovers, (charadrius melodus) which is listed as "least threatened". On average, only ten pair of these birds nest at the Seashore per year and each nest fledges about 1.3 chicks. Not once, not once! In the history of the Seashore, has a plover been killed by human activity related to visitation or vehicular access to our beaches. This being true in spite of the fact that up until 4 years ago, these beaches were open 24/7, 365 days a year, for the past several centuries. That “is” the historical record as documented by the NPS.

    Each chick now receives a 1000 meter buffer around them. This translates to a buffer of 2000 meters or 1.2 miles in diameter. This also equates to 776.285 acres, 751.4 football fields, or 33,815,000 square feet, per bird. It would take 31.5 of the Cape Hatteras Lighthouses to cross this buffer or 4.5 Empire State Buildings. This being said, when one nests anywhere near an access ramp/walkway the entire stretch is closed due to this buffer zone. Anywhere else “where they are indigenous” typically get “50 feet” and thrive.

    It seems that even, at least in some cases even Audubon is beginning to question their espoused management advice and is wondering why our beloved ploover (Canadian pronunciation) is doing well in areas where people abound and are not regulated by the sort of draconian restrictions placed upon our beaches here on Hatteras and Ocracoke Islands. The plover is, after all, the only federally protected bird species on the islands but apparently they sometimes do well around people, contrary to the mania that has been thrust upon us by Audubon, DOW, their lawyers from SELC, and of course, the Park Service. The article can be read here:
    http://articles.boston.com/2011-08-1...beaches-chicks

    Senator,

    There is something terribly wrong in our country today, and there is no place where it is more evident than what is happening in Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. The inhabitants of this tiny island that consists of seven villages are under siege by the allowances of repressive government. No less than the framers of the Constitution were, who out of desperation fled from their homeland where generations of "their" families had lived. We the people of the United States are supposed to be living under the rule of law created by our founding documents, guarantying our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    The simplicity of the early days of the Audubon Society, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other similar wildlife groups who saw the necessity of protecting and preserving our precious natural resources, and rightfully so, has evolved into a very radical and deliberate paradigm shift towards a sense of absolute control over the public by these agencies and special interest groups. But the most unbelievable aspect about what is happening is how all of these groups somehow trump the United States Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They have become the puppeteers of our society and there influence affects every aspect of our daily lives, from commerce, to tourism, to recreation.

    The following is from a 1998 copyrighted Bantam book entitled, The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States:

    On June 8, 1789, Madison moved in the first federal Congress that "a declaration" be "prefixed to the constitution." That "prefix" which seems to have constituted what Madison called a "bill of rights," would say.....That all power is originally vested in, and consequently derived from the people. That Government is instituted, and ought to be exercised for the benefit of the people; which consists in the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the right of acquiring and using property, and generally of pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. That the people have an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform or change their government, whenever it be found adverse or inadequate to the purposes of the institution.

    Senator,

    Myself and my family in its entirety requests your assistance in correcting this injustice by supporting HR 4094 and S.2372.

    Thank you in advance!

    Sincerely,

    Chris Worthington
    Mount Airy, MD
    Last edited by Chris_Worthington; 06-20-2012 at 08:39 AM. Reason: Fixed quote

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