View Poll Results: With what you know now how would you decide

Voters
51. You may not vote on this poll
  • Guilty of Murder 2

    6 11.76%
  • Guilty of Manslaughter

    11 21.57%
  • Guilty of involuntary manslaughter

    4 7.84%
  • Not Guilty

    30 58.82%
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Results 105 to 117 of 189
  1. #105
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    Jun 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It wasn't a complete waste for American industrialists who made a lot of money supplying that war. There is a reason for everything.
    Wrong again. While we should have gone into win instead of what LBJ did to convince N Vietnam to stop the invasion, the reason we went to war was to stop Communist expansion known as the domino theory and we squandered our chance and lost Laos, S Vietnam and Cambodia to the Communists. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  2. #106
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    We still had no right to get into that conflict. It was not our battle. It was not place to intercede in that part of the world at that time. We were never attacked by Vietcong, Chinese or even Russians.

    As it turned out, the Vietnamese have adjusted quite well under their Communist regime and we are now kissing butt with the very Chinese that our American soldiers were being killed by while in Vietnam.
    Yeah, most people adjust once they see everyone who opposes the regime hauled off to "re-education" camps.

    Millions of people adjusted to communism under the threat of being put in prison or killed.

    Communism never works in practice, that's why the regimes that practice communism must silence opposition. And when I say silence them, I mean kill them.

    Criminals adjust to prison too.

  3. #107
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    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    Verses the 5million + killed directly because of the war. (pick which evil you want, neither is right)

    I think you will find that most intelligent free people think it was just a pure waste.

    No excuses for a sadist barstwrerd like POL POT
    It's a waste because the communists were allowed to win. So to that extent I would agree.

    However it seems that you believe there is no moral difference between a regime who is fighting, dying and killing in order to reign supreme authority over it's population and an army fighting, dying and killing in order to preserve basic human freedom and dignity.

    If you can make no moral distinction between the two, I shrug my shoulders and shake my head like I do all the time. We have no shortage of people in this country who think exactly the way you do.
    Personally I find it sickening and it sounds like Glenn has you pegged pretty good. People like you don't deserve freedom. Perhaps you would do better in Vietnam or N. korea.

  4. #108
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    Mar 2005
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    To Barbar fighting a war in an attempt to preserve basic human freedoms is the moral equivelent to marching detractors off to a pit somewhere and executing them because they believe something other than what the regime believes.

    Same thing, dontcha know.

  5. #109
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    SE Michigan
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    17,967
    France was raping Vietnam of resources and Ho Chi didn't like it. When France got bogged down with fighting the Germans, Communist educated Ho Chi saw fit to try and take his country back from the exploits of the French frogs.

    Then we got involved by some lies and deceit called The Gulf of Tonkin.

    Then we lost 50,000 Americans fighting a useless war based on lies and deception.

    People that have been Buddhists for generations pushed to become Catholic didn't sit well with many of the Vietminh. And watching their country being controlled by the French didn't sit well with them either.

    Not that anyone should want Communism...but maybe this is better than being ruled by the French?

    What would we do if Iran came on our land and started telling us what to think, building schools, taking our resources, and building rail systems to get those resources out of there as fast as possible?

    We would fight!
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

    Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Funny please explain that to lucky S Vietnamese soldiers, government officials and workers who survived 10 to 15 years in a "reeducation" camps. I have talked to several of the survivors who have been welcome guests at our monthly Nam veterans meetings. It would make your heart bleed. Can't imagine what happened to them and those who did not survive. Thank you, thank you very much
    I didn't say we didn't do any good, just that it wasn't our place to be at that time. When JFK took office, we were not involved in any wars. Yet, JFK's acceptance speech took on an air of the U.S. protecting itself from it's enemies. That was a typical leftist speech designed to put the people into a state of fear. Was it to maintain political power through fear or was it to help American industrialists sell their wares for war, who knows. One thing we can be certain of is that we did not get involved in Vietnam with full intentions of helping out the Vietnamese. A lot less killing would have occured had the U.S. stayed out of that conflict.

    American leftists used Vietnam from every angle they could. Vietnam was one of the most successful American liberal campaign ever designed and orchestrated by the American left. As it turned out, the Vietnamese people who stayed in Vietnam did quite well under their Communist victors. It is very similar to Cuba. We only hear from those who were discontent with the changes to these countries and not from those who stayed and adapted to the new regimes.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Wrong again. While we should have gone into win instead of what LBJ did to convince N Vietnam to stop the invasion, the reason we went to war was to stop Communist expansion known as the domino theory and we squandered our chance and lost Laos, S Vietnam and Cambodia to the Communists. Thank you, thank you very much
    Oh come on now, Glenn. You've had enough years to figure out why we were really in Vietnam. We never intended to win, at least not quickly. LBJ escalated the war in Vietnam for the same reason JFK got us more involved, to keep Americans in fear. For this time period, Communism was the fear that these leftists were selling just as they sell global warming today.

    Joe McDonald of Country Joe and the Fish was there in the Navy, and his parody song about why we were in Vietnam is pretty much on target; http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...BCF3KKxc#t=22s

    Remember, Glenn, this is another American soldier who fought in Vietnam who is a couple of years older then you.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cool-in-cayman View Post
    Yeah, most people adjust once they see everyone who opposes the regime hauled off to "re-education" camps.

    Millions of people adjusted to communism under the threat of being put in prison or killed.

    Communism never works in practice, that's why the regimes that practice communism must silence opposition. And when I say silence them, I mean kill them.

    Criminals adjust to prison too.
    I agree that Communism does not work in practice. But we cannot cast stones at Communist re-education camps without acknowledging American Indian re-education facilities where Indian children were taken from their parents in order to be educated in the way of their victors.

    I am not defending Communism. I have had a brief but eye opening oportunity to see how people of Cuba live under Communism, and their lives are quite impressive. The point is that living under one type of regime over another is mostly a matter of how much one is willing to accept and adapt to the faction in which they live under. I'm not real happy about the way American Socialist minded leaders are taking our country. So far, I have adapted. Who knows, I may someday decide to not take it any more an rebel. I'd rather see younger folks carry that flag, but they seem to be drining the Socialist Kool-Aid more then not.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by cool-in-cayman View Post
    It's a waste because the communists were allowed to win. So to that extent I would agree.

    However it seems that you believe there is no moral difference between a regime who is fighting, dying and killing in order to reign supreme authority over it's population and an army fighting, dying and killing in order to preserve basic human freedom and dignity.

    If you can make no moral distinction between the two, I shrug my shoulders and shake my head like I do all the time. We have no shortage of people in this country who think exactly the way you do.
    Personally I find it sickening and it sounds like Glenn has you pegged pretty good. People like you don't deserve freedom. Perhaps you would do better in Vietnam or N. korea.
    Define morality in terms of Communist versus Republic government. We in the U.S. are considered immoral by Communists and Muslims worldwide. Is their definition of what moral is wrong? Why?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    France was raping Vietnam of resources and Ho Chi didn't like it. When France got bogged down with fighting the Germans, Communist educated Ho Chi saw fit to try and take his country back from the exploits of the French frogs.

    Then we got involved by some lies and deceit called The Gulf of Tonkin.

    Then we lost 50,000 Americans fighting a useless war based on lies and deception.

    People that have been Buddhists for generations pushed to become Catholic didn't sit well with many of the Vietminh. And watching their country being controlled by the French didn't sit well with them either.

    Not that anyone should want Communism...but maybe this is better than being ruled by the French?

    What would we do if Iran came on our land and started telling us what to think, building schools, taking our resources, and building rail systems to get those resources out of there as fast as possible?

    We would fight!
    Not exactly accurate and somewhat incoherent, but basically correct.

    We were well entrenched in Vietnam by the time LBJ fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin attack on an American ship. LBJ did that to get us even more involved so his wealthy industrialist buddies could make even more money selling their war wares to the government.

    Since we already had advisors in Vietnam while the French still owned that war, I have to believe that we had specific reasons for wanting to be more involved. The Catholic angle from JFK is one that is kept low key, but may have played more of a role in why we escalated our being involved in Vietnam after a Catholic becomes president;
    • How religious pamphlets and radio broadcasts convinced one million Catholics to leave North Vietnam and live under Catholic rule in the South, overwhelming the Buddhists.
    • How brutal persecution of Vietnamese Buddhists led to rioting and suicides by fire in the streets.
    • Why the reports of what was really happening, written by American military and civil advisers, failed to reach the U.S. President.
    • Why the project backfired, and as U.S. soldiers continued to die, the Vatican made a secret deal with Ho Chi Minh.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #115
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    6,543
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Funny please explain that to lucky S Vietnamese soldiers, government officials and workers who survived 10 to 15 years in a "reeducation" camps. I have talked to several of the survivors who have been welcome guests at our monthly Nam veterans meetings. It would make your heart bleed. Can't imagine what happened to them and those who did not survive. Thank you, thank you very much

    Thats a fact, the direct result of socialism is death and enslavement , NO human rights, and No liberty.
    Those people lived through things that would kill most soft Americans
    You sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim.

  12. #116
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    One more reported post from this thread and we're gonna shut it down. You guys need to stop the insults and pissing contests and stick to discussing the topic.

    ARPC

  13. #117
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    Mar 2008
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    Long Beach, CA
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    3,392
    I wonder of the people that voted “not guilty” how many actually believe Zimmerman’s story?

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