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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    NW burbs of Detroit
    Posts
    6,058
    i tried to find the You Tube video of how sealers plug up service manifolds...could only find "happy testimonials" from Sealclip.

    Is this thread just another promotional placement?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    GTA, ON
    Posts
    1,262
    I'm curious as to why someone would use this to locate a tiny leak as opposed to running dye through the system and shining some blacklight? My apologies if the question's too basic, but my schooling is on gas, so whatever I picked up on refrigeration was through independent reading and shadowing techs.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrunner View Post
    I'm curious as to why someone would use this to locate a tiny leak as opposed to running dye through the system and shining some blacklight? My apologies if the question's too basic, but my schooling is on gas, so whatever I picked up on refrigeration was through independent reading and shadowing techs.
    By the manufactures recommendations the product can not seal every leak. I believe the product is used in the hope to seal up a leak that can't be repaired or worse for someone who doesn't want to pay us to repair them or replace the leaking component but if the sealant failed to work the dye would possibly show where the leak was. On that note the UV dye combined with the sealant is a silly combination for the customer. If the dye shows the leak in a accessible area like a coil it wouldn't matter since they didn't want to pay to change it in the first place. IMO if you can find a leak with dye you could have found it with other methods in less time. I still would like to know how to deal with a system after the fact the product has been injected and the customer has a change of heart and would like to replace a leaky component. Would like to know the method of changing something like an evaporator coil and not get one drop air in the system even if you are purging nitrogen. Would also like to know what to do with a botched system that is problematic with reacted sealant running in the system. I was no a call in after Clip Light Super Seal was injected into a one door Traulsen freezer (luckily it was marked).
    The customer told me the infecting company had to replace the TXV twice before I was called in. I found the TXV restricted again. What are the options at this point for a professional to tell the customer?? I recommended changing every piece of refrigeration which would cost more than a new unit. I should have called if there was some type of clean up procedure but even then the cost would have been more than the box was worth unless there is another magic in the can product I not aware of. How many of the supposed millions of systems out there with this product installed haven't been marked? Just food for thought.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bristol NH
    Posts
    229
    I used it on a small rtu 8ton. Needed a condenser and couldnt get one for 6-8 weeks. Summer is over here in nh by then. It was a spot where the condenser had to be removed to try a repair. This sealed it completely until the condenser was replaced the next spring. I recovered the system and recharged just like normal no problems with any equipment,accessories or the unit been 2 years. I would say if used PROPERLY it is harmless and can be helpful. Just my worthless opinion.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,735
    Quote Originally Posted by boilerman856 View Post
    I used it on a small rtu 8ton. Needed a condenser and couldnt get one for 6-8 weeks. Summer is over here in nh by then. It was a spot where the condenser had to be removed to try a repair. This sealed it completely until the condenser was replaced the next spring. I recovered the system and recharged just like normal no problems with any equipment,accessories or the unit been 2 years. I would say if used PROPERLY it is harmless and can be helpful. Just my worthless opinion.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
    Do you remember what type of metering device?
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Bristol NH
    Posts
    229
    This one is a piston orifice but we have a 35 ton chiller with txv that has it in there still. No problems

    I think people have problems when they either use the product made for automotive or are not being conscious of purging the hose and gauges of air. Or the system is already very contaminated.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    37
    Sorry to veer off where this thread is headed, but this is just a reply to the original post.

    As a supplier, I am not ultra-familiar with the installation of the product or how it reacts in certain circumstances. However, we sell a ton of the stuff. A lot of people like it, and some people hate it. I think it all depends on how severe the leak is. If it is a minor leak and there is not a ton of moisture in the system to begin with, then the product should work fine. On the flip side, If the leak is pretty substantial you probably would not want to use the product.

    Not sure if this was any help or not...

    -RBrudi

  8. #21
    To answer the first question, our sealant uses a two part mixing process so that it is able to travel throughout the system with the refrigerant. The first part happens while charging the can, you will feel a notable heat from the can, this is the sealant creating its chemical mixture. Once the system is turned on the sealant enters the system as a fine mist through our patented 29,000th of an inch orifice. The orifice we use serves a few purposes: it creates a mist so it will mix with the refrigerant and not slug the compressor and cools down our sealant when entering the system.

    Super Seal is a light (low) viscosity liquid which contains no solid particles - it will only react with moisture. In a non-contaminated system, the sealant will make use of the moisture that is readily available in our present atmosphere. The process of repair takes place when the refrigerant, with a percentage of oil and sealant, begins to exit out of the AC/R system.

    As the refrigerant exits, it begins to lower the ambient air temperature down to the dew point where micro droplets of water are deposited around the perimeter of the leak area. When the sealant comes in contact with the droplets of water it begins to form a permanent low tensile crystalline structure, which creates a barrier preventing the refrigerant from escaping. Our sealant will also attach to all types of metals used in AC/R field, an oily surface will not diminish its effectiveness.

    Our sealant is not forming a plug, rather it is bonding to the metal itself. Minimal levels of internal moisture will lower the performance of sealing work that could be accomplished. Higher levels can prematurely activate the sealant and cause formation at areas of moisture concentration such as driers, and metering devices, resulting in possible restriction.

    This is the reason we have developed our Super Seal Advanced™ line of sealants. Once again, this formula can chemically eliminate the water presence up to 20 drops inside systems while increasing the sealants performance/ability. For systems that may need to be reclaimed, follow these simple steps: After the unit's refrigerant has been successfully recovered proceed to purge using dry nitrogen through the system while venting to atmosphere. A purge time of 2 minutes at 25 psi / 172.4 kpa is sufficient for most residential AC/R units.

    Cliplight Manufacturing R&D Team
    866.548.3644

  9. #22
    if the system has a leak how are you supposed to ensure dryness before using your "product"? evacuation would pull in air.
    ---

    At Cliplight we firmly believe that best work practice should always be exercised for long term results. If the leak cannot be found or repaired and is in suspect of being contaminated then the next logical step is to recover the entire refrigerant and install new over sized liquid line driers and carry out a triple evacuation to fully remove system moisture. Field and lab tests have indicated that some systems can hold a tight vacuum
    at levels as high as 295 micron but expel refrigerant under pressures greater than atmospheric. Contributing factors come in to place such as load, acoustics, and temperature variation which can influence the rate of leakage. The methodology around pulling the 350 micron vacuum is to bring attention to the technician the size of leakage that truly exists on that particular system.

    At that point, the decision can be made whether to use the sealant product or apply a mechanical fix. The greater the leak the more difficult it is to pull down to specific vacuum levels. The types of leaks which are difficult to find usually are classified under intermittent in comparison to continuous leakage. Although given enough time these usually can be found but because of economics they pose a restriction in the practical world.

    Cliplight Manufacturing R&D Team
    866.548.3644

  10. #23
    How fast will the product react in the presence of air or water?
    ---

    Our sealant is a very high grade sealant and will only react with water. Only when it exits at a leak point and makes contact with moisture in the air does it begin to form a seal very quickly.


    Is the hose that comes with the product a sealing type of connection that needs to be depressed to flow?
    ---

    Yes, The low loss anti-blow back fitting prevents refrigerant from finger burns & loss of can contents if can needs to be removed before full injection


    Dr.Z on your site shows using a vacuum pump and Cliplight shows purging the hose.
    ---

    Our recommendation is to purge the hose, this leaves less room of accidental moisture contamination. The reason for the original instruction to vacuum the hose is because, hose purging was not yet considered “De minimis” by the EPA

    Why does the can of Super Seal get warm as it empties from the can? Warming would indicate a reaction is taking place right there IMO.
    ---

    When the refrigerant makes contact with the sealant a reaction of heat is generated due to the two chemicals mixing (Super Seal and Refrigerant). This allows the sealant to be easily removed from the system and not rely on the oil to travel through the system.

    Also on a magnified view of a generated leak there appears to be solidified material too small at first and passes.
    ---

    This substance is refrigerant oil inside the system. It is more visible then when in a typical system, we used a demonstration A coil to present how our sealant worked. This was a very fine amount of sealant injected into the system and the refrigerant picked up the sealant. The oil was introduced prior to this. There was no compressor used in this demonstration.


    Then what appears to be a UV light of some kind kickstarting some more of a reaction to speed things up.
    ---

    The light used was a Blue 450nm wavelength light that was necessary to view the sealing process. This was to overcome the quality of the camera used, this had no affect on the polymerization of our sealant.


    Then a larger chunk gets trapped as if it was too large to pass the opening leaving the outside hole still exposed. so it must be sealing from the inside out.
    ---

    The sealant is polymerizing along the hole walls of the leak point coming into contact with moisture and boding with more sealant and the hole wall forming more of a weld. The large chunk was some oil that pooled up in the leak site.



    Unless somebody can prove otherwise I say it is just as I assumed in the previous post with moisture or heat from compression only speeding the chemical reaction already in the works
    ---

    Unsure of exact question here - please call our team to discuss.


    Discharge and compressor body temp is a test shown in the video to not use the product if the system is too hot along with temp diff on the filter drier.
    ---

    These are recommended check to be sure that there is not an acidic condition or a fully saturated filter drier. Both could affect the performance of the sealant

    Thanks again for everyone's time.

    Cliplight Manufacturing R&D Team
    866.548.3644

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    41
    You can save your gauges and use the hose that comes with the kit. Some like products sell a short hose separate. This, like iceman said, is a last ditch effort. If the customer isn't planning on repairing existing equipment and possibly buying a totally new system if failure occurs then I would say it wouldn't hurt to try. Once it's in the system there no turning back. You can install larger filter driers prior but I wouldn't go buck wild with the sizing. My biggest concern with this stuff is on systems with cap tubes and small distributor tubes. Product states that it'll dry out 20 drops of water but there's no quick test that I know of that will tell you how much moisture is in the system. Ontop of which 410a is a blend refrigerant. The way I see it if the customer wants it against your recommendation, put it in writing and let them roll the dice.

    Oh and check if the hose provided can handle the 120+ suction pressure. Some kit hoses have plastic caps.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    So.Cal
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliplight Mfg View Post


    As the refrigerant exits, it begins to lower the ambient air temperature down to the dew point where micro droplets of water are deposited around the perimeter of the leak area. When the sealant comes in contact with the droplets of water it begins to form a permanent low tensile crystalline structure, which creates a barrier preventing the refrigerant from escaping. Our sealant will also attach to all types of metals used in AC/R field, an oily surface will not diminish its effectiveness.
    According to your own explanation the sealant reacts with the condensate formed around the exit point of the refrigerant leak stream. This means a doughnut of sealant will form around the leak perimeter on the outside of the tubing not on the inside of the cavity as your video shows. Just exactly how does moisture get way down into the leak cavity when you have an opposing positive pressure refrigerant jet or stream. There is no way air or moisture can enter a leak unless the leak stops and starts sucking air.
    We can see the spray pattern of a refrigerant leak when we use dye so we should also see a spray pattern of sealant on surrounding surfaces but you do not talk about that. You also claim that the sealant bonds to metal coated with oil. Google cannot find an adhesive or sealant that can do that. When you jump in the shark tank prepare to lose a chunk of flesh.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    20
    The MSDS for SUPERSEAL HVACR on their website lists "Incompatibilities & Conditions to Avoid: Reacts with water or moisture to form methanol."

    Ermmmm. So, it works by producing a condition that is to be avoided? Fishy fishy

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