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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,566
    Quote Originally Posted by RayD8630 View Post
    Of course they're easy to diagnose! On the newer L series units you pop open the cover of the control panel and the unit will tell you exactly whats wrong

    They are pretty easy to diagnose. Attempt to change the minimum position or enthalpy setting on the module and if it doesnt respond theres your first clue somethings gone.

    IMO ive seen more economizer related problems than actual mechanical side problems. Units opening the econo on days that are too warm and running mechanical at the same time, and units freezing up because of stuck econos that end up closing off the return and only drawing in outside air....until the screens plug up and then the unit just freezes. Im from the great white north so we may see up to 4 months a year where free cooling will be called upon. I usually pressure wash my screens when Im doing a coil wash. Now if Honeyhole can just develop some better hardware id say that depending on the climate theyre a great idea. York should stop using them. Ive changed out so many York econo parts I joke that I should just get my apprenticeship book signed off by them.

    Funny you mentioned York.

    The economizers are shipped separately and installed on site in the typical 5 ton RTU.

    On one roof, I found HALF of the units had the motor actuator crank installed improperly, ruining the motors. The motor, when actuated for free cooling, was pulling the dampers closed, and not open, when they had already been closed to begin with.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  2. #41
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Funny you mentioned York.

    The economizers are shipped separately and installed on site in the typical 5 ton RTU.

    On one roof, I found HALF of the units had the motor actuator crank installed improperly, ruining the motors. The motor, when actuated for free cooling, was pulling the dampers closed, and not open, when they had already been closed to begin with.
    Yeah, that is why I spec them for factory installed.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    wasilla, alaska
    Posts
    29
    That is the main problem we have with them in Anchorage. We have had to extend sewer vents and because of a restaurant on one roof we put in charcoal pleated. The smell on that one wasn't really bad but the people in the office were always hungry.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    831
    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    Funny you mentioned York.

    The economizers are shipped separately and installed on site in the typical 5 ton RTU.

    On one roof, I found HALF of the units had the motor actuator crank installed improperly, ruining the motors. The motor, when actuated for free cooling, was pulling the dampers closed, and not open, when they had already been closed to begin with.
    I had that happen to me once. We took over a mall and got told "fix everything thats broken." With the exception of 2 Carriers, theres almost 100 Yorks on this roof. Among the fixes were a bunch of damper motors. The wholesaler probably didnt have his coffee the morning he got us our parts and gave us a motor that operated backwards. I forget the model number but I installed it and it wouldnt open. But it was warm SO since I changed the module and enthalpy sensor I knew they were working right since the mechanical started. SO I tried adjusting the minimal position. Nothing. I turn off the power and the econo springs open. I grabbed the box from the last one I changed out and the one I just put in. After seeing 20 boxes all the same I didnt bother checking one. Lesson learned lol.
    Get money, get paid.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    310

    Question Economizers: Heat exchange??

    I enjoy working on the economizers now that I know how they work, but one thing I always wondered: On the older ones that only open a damper and close a return, where does the heat exchange take place? It seems to me that an economizer doesn't really economize very well unless it has a power exhauster to remove the heat from the conditioned space. All the new ones have the power exhaust, but the older ones don't. Just thinking out loud here.....

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    469
    Wish i had a nickle every time i seen them disconnected,, it hurts because I get subbed out to clean coil and the customer says great will save energy. I always respond Yes in reference to the condenser coil. I mentioned once to the contractor behind doors and it was the last time he called me,, I guess he thought i was a Janitor, not a trained tech who turns dirt into gold. We have lots of dirtBags and dirt up Here.

    Love it when they sell them a space heater instead of fixing the Problem when winter comes

  7. #46
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    352
    Just found out California is tired of economizers that don't work... new 2013 code will require "Mandatory Fault Detection and Diagnostics (FDD)" when ever you have any economizer. Also Economizers on anything 5 tons or more.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    19,566
    Quote Originally Posted by tuba View Post
    I enjoy working on the economizers now that I know how they work, but one thing I always wondered: On the older ones that only open a damper and close a return, where does the heat exchange take place? It seems to me that an economizer doesn't really economize very well unless it has a power exhauster to remove the heat from the conditioned space. All the new ones have the power exhaust, but the older ones don't. Just thinking out loud here.....
    In retail, the building is never closed up for very long. There is always a door or two being opened. So, a little positive pressure forces the old air out the door.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  9. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,727
    It's often said that indoor air is often more polluted than outside air.

    It's a great way to purge all these nasties out with outside air.

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