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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Ripley, WV
    Posts
    1,166
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinnerCO View Post
    Yes, it is a 4TTX unit outdoors. Sorry, the invoice I was pulling the numbers from is cut off on the side.

    I believe we went with the larger 4T unit because of our desire to get adequate AC on the upper level of the house. It was either booster fans in the ducts or larger outside unit. I'm beginning to believe we made a poor choice there.

    I've attached some shots of the inside unit, including the TXV valve. Some of the paperwork I have for the system does state "TXV with internal check valve".

    Tech's line of thinking was because there was no air flow obstruction, that it had to be a faulty TXV. He said "head pressure is normal and suction pressure is low".

    Sometimes it seems like it's another language you guys speak!

    I do note that the illustration on our paperwork of cased coils shows a TXV in a completely different place than the physical location on our unit.

    I do not know if the original install switched out one kind of TXV with the one the system came with. Are there different TXV's for R-22 and R410 setups?

    The system begins to ice over after apx 60 minutes of operation.
    Did he take/share any other readings such as subcooling and superheat?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    10
    Who did the what what?

    I am uncertain what specific readings he took. I know he had to change what device he planned on using to another once he went outside. He hooked up his new device and that is when he told us that the head pressure was fine but the suction pressure was low.

    Other than that reading, he did not place any other devices on our system. I don't know what information is available with the contraption he used. If you need different equipment to measure subcooling and superheat, then no, he did not. I had to give him a count of intake vents and output vents.

    We unfortunately spent alot of time talking about how amazed he was that our system EVER worked, let alone for 10 years. And we got a proper scolding about closed vents, inadequate room on one side of the outside unit, the size of the outside unit being excessive, why we would allow the install guys to mix equipment, and we should use cheap filters in the summer. He also mentioned that because a diagram label was pulling away from the inside of a panel, it proved that the system was working too hard to pull air through the unit.

    I'm over internet surfed on HVAC... so I'm going to act like a fool and throw out a word....

    Non-condensables?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,051
    Non-condensables, generally means air and or moisture in the system.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,664
    It does appear the used the wrong txv ,i would ask about a new all aluminum coil and all trane coils now come with a 410a expansion valve factory installed ,also im not convinced that there is much difference between a r22 txv and a 410a txv

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,675
    Quote Originally Posted by catmanacman View Post
    It does appear the used the wrong txv ,i would ask about a new all aluminum coil and all trane coils now come with a 410a expansion valve factory installed ,also im not convinced that there is much difference between a r22 txv and a 410a txv
    except it is the wrong txv.....if that is what is on there.

    Talk to your neighbors,friends, look on this website and get another service contractor out to reevaluate your system.

    Find out what the true cause of lack of cooling is before you burn out a compressor.

    just my 2 cents

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    4,664
    Having replaced more Trane evap coils due to leaking refrigerant than i care to count i would replace the entire coil,also the more i read the original post the tech is top of it

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    10
    New info... apparently our "freeze stat" (?) needs to be replaced. I can't find what that is...

    and is it true.... distributors do not sell uncased coils? If replacement of the coils is necessary... I'd rather use the case I have because a new one would have to have a hole cut in it for my humidifier.... as well as other fitting issues.

    Just shoot me now... put me out of my misery.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    winnipeg
    Posts
    1,330
    well
    all the distributors I deal with sell uncased colis....
    it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,051
    They make uncased coils. Weather one is made that will fit in your current case I can't say.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinnerCO View Post
    New info... apparently our "freeze stat" (?) needs to be replaced. I can't find what that is...

    and is it true.... distributors do not sell uncased coils? If replacement of the coils is necessary... I'd rather use the case I have because a new one would have to have a hole cut in it for my humidifier.... as well as other fitting issues.

    Just shoot me now... put me out of my misery.
    I would have to agree with the others now and get a second opinion. Uncased coils ARE sold.

    I am not a Trane dealer but do not know of many manufacturers using "freezestats"; most would use a low pressure switch if anything. A"freezestat" is simply a temperature sensing switch designed to cut off condenser before freezing occurs (38 degrees in my experience). Could have been initially installed to hide problems such as airflow.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,040
    Quote Originally Posted by rglasgow View Post
    I would have to agree with the others now and get a second opinion. Uncased coils ARE sold.

    I am not a Trane dealer but do not know of many manufacturers using "freezestats"; most would use a low pressure switch if anything. A"freezestat" is simply a temperature sensing switch designed to cut off condenser before freezing occurs (38 degrees in my experience). Could have been initially installed to hide problems such as airflow.
    Any high velocity system uses freeze stats, built in from the factory.

    Honeywell zoning uses freeze stats.
    Arzel zoning uses freeze stats.
    Climate master uses freeze stats, but it's on the water side, not the air side.

    Homeowner:
    You should be able to find a somewhat simple solution for your problem. Uncased or cased, are both made. As mentioned before, they might not be able to find a replacement coil to fit your existing case, but I doubt it. Possible, but I doubt it.

    Do you have more thermostats than you have air conditioners?
    If not, then I'd agree with rglasglow about the usage of the freeze stat to cover existing airflow issues.

    I'd want a second opinion. He said TXV at first. Now it's freeze stat, which you may not even have or shouldn't have.

    If you do have a freeze stat, and the same number of thermostats as air conditioners, then you've got an airflow problem that should be addressed, instead of using a freeze stat to mask the problem.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    10
    Soooooo........ I have a 4 ton AC outside. Apparently I have 3 tons of return inside the house. DH states that he had original installers out to inspect the system after he noticed freezing 10 years ago. They at that time installed the freeze-stat.

    So we have a R-22 air handler coil. With a R-22 TXV that may or may not have been factory. With R-410 ac outside.

    10 years no problems... now we have air handler coil freezing.

    I can have a new air handler coil installed... R-410. But with 4 ton unit outside and 3 tons of return am I still going to have freezing.... still going to need a freeze-stat?

    Question: Could the R-22 air handler and R410 condenser differences cause freezing? If so, then I should replace the R-22 air handler.

    Question: If the cause of my freezing is actually the 4ton compressor with 3 ton of return... replacing the coil really doesn't do anything.

    Question: If my "real" problem is a broken freeze-stat... that has been functioning this whole time (but masking the larger airflow problem), can I just have it replaced? Turning a blind eye to the proper fix which would be whole system overhaul which doesn't light my fire, nor keep me cool....

    Tracking down a 2nd opinion guy. This is so much fun!

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    5,040
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinnerCO View Post
    Soooooo........ I have a 4 ton AC outside. Apparently I have 3 tons of return inside the house. DH states that he had original installers out to inspect the system after he noticed freezing 10 years ago. They at that time installed the freeze-stat.

    So we have a R-22 air handler coil. With a R-22 TXV that may or may not have been factory. With R-410 ac outside.

    Something needs to be changed there. Either change the coil to a 410a with a txv, or change the condenser to an r-22.

    10 years no problems... now we have air handler coil freezing.

    I can have a new air handler coil installed... R-410. But with 4 ton unit outside and 3 tons of return am I still going to have freezing.... still going to need a freeze-stat?

    No, you don't need the freeze stat. What you need is a correctly sized ductwork system.

    Question: If my "real" problem is a broken freeze-stat... that has been functioning this whole time (but masking the larger airflow problem), can I just have it replaced? Turning a blind eye to the proper fix which would be whole system overhaul which doesn't light my fire, nor keep me cool....

    Tracking down a 2nd opinion guy. This is so much fun!
    Ok. Here's the best way to do this:

    Scratch it all.

    Find out what your house really needs.
    It's possible you actually have someone who put the wrong unit (thinking bigger is better) in.
    This is called a manual J, and needs to be performed. Expect to pay for it.

    Then decide what is needed for the ductwork, to handle the system that is SUPPOSED to be there. This would be included with the price on the manual J, but it's technically called a manual D.

    Go from there.

    Get rid of the freeze stat bandaid.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

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