New install with pics.

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by lawdawg0321
are you sure that mr billpro isnt the installer looking for a quick buck???.lol.

Not me I don't install that junk.
You want to see my installs look in the "wall of pride" may have to search there pretty old but we still do wall of pride installs.

[danglerb]

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

We don't talk about prices so how the heck are we supposed to know whats a low bid?

A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.

Sloppy work comes from shops of all sizes and in all price ranges. What keeps them in business are high margins from slick professional sales presentations and customers who never look at the work.

[andserco]

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.


[/B]

Sir, You dont have a clue..do you??

[mark beiser]

The foil tape on the air handler makes it look sloppy, but it looks like they made it so it is easy to service the blower section. I would have used mylar tape around the access panels. If the coil ever needs to be pulled out, it could be a problem though. The "smaller" air handler wouldn't have been any better of a fit.
It looks to me like they did ok on the indor part considdering what they had to work with.
The only real issues I see in the attic that I would have them fix is that it looks like the emergency drain pan is not piped out, and it's hard to tell, but it looks like the secondary drain outlet from the air handler is still capped.
I would have them pipe an emergency drain line out from the emergency drain pan so that it dripps outside if water gets in the pan. The secondary drain outlet from the air handler needs to be unplugged and piped into the emergency drain line you have them install.
The way it is now, if the primary drain cloggs, water will overflow the internal drain pan in the unit and flood the inside of the air handler before it runs down into the emergency pan.

The installation of the outdoor unit wasn't lazyness, it was just plain stupidity IMO. They actually made more work for themselves installing it that way!
It looks like they could have installed it the "right" way around, and moved it to the left about a foot or so. They would have been able to use the origonal disconnect, or installed a new one in the existing location, and avoid having to jumper over to a 2nd disconnect.
It would also have allowed the refrigerant lines to be run neetly behind the unit with less copper.

I would recommend removing the bushes that are right by the unit to maximize airflow through the area.

[southeflorida]

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

Had 5 estimates done. This was the 2nd highest bid.

[tigerdunes]

Originally posted by southeflorida

"Tigerdunes" asked if new lineset was installed. New copper tube was soldered onto the existing tubeing to make them long enough. (Don't quote me on the 'soldered'. They may ahve been brazed but I don't know the difference) The 'Being backwards' thing: I know nothing about if there were any application issues or not....no one said anything to me about it anyway.

SoutheFlorida

I would follow up also on the lineset. I don't like the idea of reusing the old and specifically lengthening it with another piece. I prefer a properly sized (OD, ID and length)new lineset be installed with all new installs. This looks like another issue that benefits the dealer at the expense of the homeowner. Perhaps some HVAC pros could comment on this.

IMO

[lonnirat]

Originally posted by southeflorida

Originally posted by lonnirat
One would have to assume you took the lowest bid.

Had 5 estimates done. This was the 2nd highest bid.

My sympathy's.

[danglerb]

Originally posted by andserco

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.

Sir, You dont have a clue..do you?? [/B]

I love these sage posts about how I or somebody else knows nothing, then say nothing and add nothing. What exactly is it that is all wrong?

Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid.

[hugodrax]

that unit outside looks like it is tilted.

I live in southflorida and they replaced the existing linesets with a whole new lineset, also they put these rubber pads between the outside unit and the new slab (I was told this prevents standing water from collecting) It passed inspection with no problems.

Honestly I would be upset myself at that installation. Do you live near Miami?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by danglerb


Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid.

danglerb, I enjoy reading your posts and I am not here to bite back at you or anyone but can I pose an honest question for you? If hacks reside in both small business and in big business like larger a/c shops would not your ratio of hacks will be more in the larger shops "correct" in the real a/c world? You can only adopt an opinion like a typical HO that does not see these jobs everyday unless your in the business, unlike us and are getting feedback from the Homeowners who did the job and 85% are the larger companys.
I can tell you from my personal 30 years of experience in the business most of the hack work has been done by the larger shops pressuring there guys to do multiple installs a day or service calls, I did not just pull this info out of my head this is the Gods honest truth. FYI yes we are a 8 man shop I would say that is small, but we also with a limited amount of guys don't push or guys to the max, we take all the time we need to do each service call and install because we schedule out each day to do a certain amount of jobs and we all like to go home at least by 6:00 PM if we can we are not a 24/7 emergency type business and we all have done very well running the business like this.
Maybe in your town the hacks reside in the smaller shops but they sure don't in Houston,Tx. matter fact I have seen more pride in 2 man shops here than I ever have in "ANY" large shop.

[hugodrax]

I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.

[dash]

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.

Hi hugo,The pics of your install sure looked a lot better,how's the system working,how the kw usage?

[Mr Bill]

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.

Yes and I am sure that with these large a/c companys pushing all there employees to the max everyday it's every quality a/c guy's dream to have a job there, so the quality of the employees are going to improve, this is just typical folks that cannot relate to this business.

[southeflorida]

I tried to get some clearer shots of the air handler but it was tough not having a tall enough ladder.
A company rep is coming here tomorrow morning. On the plus side, when I called they were very concerned I "have some issues" as I put it...and want me "100% satisfied".
Here's the pics...comments?

[mark beiser]

Originally posted by danglerb

Originally posted by andserco

Originally posted by danglerb


A lot of low bids come from one man shops where cutting corners is a way of life. Cutting some corners isn't always sloppy work, just don't expect to have permits etc. all the time.

Sir, You dont have a clue..do you??

I love these sage posts about how I or somebody else knows nothing, then say nothing and add nothing. What exactly is it that is all wrong?

Plenty of small shops are all craftsmen that do wonderfull work, but the pool of small shops is where a lot of hacks live too. I'm not saying a big shop won't do hack work too, just not too likely as the low bid. [/B]

In the DFW area of Texas, the best way to virtually guarantee you get a hack system install is to go with the highest priced big companies, lol.

[HeyBob]

The biggest hacks in my area are the largest companies, both larger than mine. The crap they install would blow your mind.

[danglerb]

Consider me beaten into submission. I was just speculating.

In SoCal maybe we just have more flavors, with many unlicensed contractors running around in all the trades. We have a really large pool of half trained labor, that many places can't resist taking advantage of.

Some flavors are;

Scammers, guys who go after inflated bids on stuff people don't need, then just sub out all the work, or replace a dangerous furnace by cleaning the outside of the old one with some windex.

Shops that sell more stuff then they have time to do a decent job of installing.

Shops that hire on a load of semiskllled for the busy season.

Generic lowballers who mix and match whatever parts are cheap, and never pull a permit before a job in their life.

Anyway, I am just speculating while I wait to see a signed contract.

[hugodrax]

Originally posted by dash

Originally posted by hugodrax
I would tend to agree, its the quality of the employees not the quantity of employees that matters.

Hi hugo,The pics of your install sure looked a lot better,how's the system working,how the kw usage?

Its working great, I need to get my electric bill and check out the numbers but last time I looked it was much lower than the old unit which was a 3 ton system, (this one 4ton/2ton)

Anyhow its running now in the low speed right now I configured the Tstat to keep the house 80degrees inside and set to 78 degrees at 4:30pm and the humiditystat to 50% the screen shows 78/49%

I got home around 5:00pm and it was already 78 degrees with it running silent. What confuses me is I hear folks talking about setting temps to 73 degrees but if I did that I think I would shiver from the cold.

Anyhow I am going to get my dad one of these units installed, he has a Rheem that cycles like crazy its a 3ton unit and I think when it was installed it was oversized I dont know who installed it.

Anyhow when Guests visit they notice the difference indoors compared to thier homes. lol

[pecmsg]

Southflorida

Something has caught my eye in your latest pic’s. Anyone else see these problems?

1st pic: shows the A/H hanging from the roof rafters by chain. (Forget the flex that’s crushed) No support in the middle of the cabinet.

2nd pic: do I see the cabinet bowing between the sections? Blower door not fitting properly? (Maybe that’s why all the tape) Overflow pan secured from the cabinet, not from below. Something is going to give if that pan ever fills with water!

So what did the Company Rep have to say???

[danglerb]

Originally posted by hugodrax

I got home around 5:00pm and it was already 78 degrees with it running silent. What confuses me is I hear folks talking about setting temps to 73 degrees but if I did that I think I would shiver from the cold.

Anyhow I am going to get my dad one of these units installed, he has a Rheem that cycles like crazy its a 3ton unit and I think when it was installed it was oversized I dont know who installed it.
[/B]

What some people do is set the temp a bit lower, but have the system stop cooling when humidity reaches a set point, like don't cool past 77 or 55% humidity which ever happens first.

Comfortable seems to vary from about 65 to 85 depending on the person.

A single stage cooling, single speed blower is going to behave differently than a 2 stage variable speed blower, but a smarter thermostat might be able to optimize the on/off cycles for more comfort or longer run times.