Replacing Goodman Builder's Grade

[PacificJade]

Looking to upgrade our 17 year old Goodman builder's model air and furnace. Stills runs ok, but not efficiently, so I don't know if we should wait until it needs a big repair or go ahead and put in a new one.

We've only had one contractor come out so far and their pitch was for a Ruud ARI-4626879, 4 Ton, R-410a condensor, 95% achiever series, 2 stage variable speed. He listed the model #'s as RGTM09ENZAJS-UAPM048JAZ-CE60D44210. The air conditioner he quoted would be a 15 SEER. 2400 sq foot 2-story home.

From reading this forum, I see the Ruud would be good depending on the installation, however, I'm questioning the zone control they want to add (at a considerable price). It's a Honeywell digital zone control that controls the dampers, I'm told. He said we could use the existing zone control but it would be less efficient. Not sure why this is so expensive. We're in No. Calif. Hot inland summers. He didn't do any load calcs. Did do an air flow calc with a coned tent thing and came up with about a 1100 number. I think he put it on our return air vent and had us turn on the 2 thermostat fans. Said our existing unit is a 9 SEER and we're only getting 75% air flow. Also said he'd flush the existing refrigerant tubing since we currently have the old freon, where I find you say to replace.

We've never replaced heating and air. I found the Honeywell Zone Control he mentioned online for about 10% of the price he quoted. If this is needed, could we buy it and have another hvac technician install? Oh, and he reduced the price on the package air & furnace for "open box".

Is this legit or kick him to the curb?

Thanks for all your help

[catmanacman]

Does the zone control include the necessary duct repair to get the proper airflow cfm. At least this contractor checked the airflow before replacing the unit thats a plus for him in my opinion . You should get a second quote just remember you get what you pay for.

[PacificJade]

Thanks catmanacman.

The zone control is a digital control box with 2 thermostats that replaces the existing box and controls 2 dampers, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. He has on the quote: "dampers-wiring-thermostats-barometric relief-regroup of ducting" for the zone system. The new furnace install includes a sealing of the ducts along with a Title 24 certification. We have flexible ducting.

I don't understand what you're saying "you get what you pay for". Just because they charge more doesn't necessarily mean you get quality and honest work.

The price of the zone control box is half of what the air conditioner and furnace cost. I'm just having a hard time justifying it's price.

[motoguy128]

I don't understand what you're saying "you get what you pay for". Just because they charge more doesn't necessarily mean you get quality and honest work.

No but the lowwest bid is rarely the best quality install either. You do have to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Pricing often has a lot to do with how busy a company is and how clear the scope of work is.

[bobboan]

From reading this forum, I see the Ruud would be good depending on the installation, however, I'm questioning the zone control they want to add (at a considerable price). It's a Honeywell digital zone control that controls the dampers, I'm told. He said we could use the existing zone control but it would be less efficient.



Thanks for all your help

I don't see how changing the zoning control is going to make the system any more efficient if they're quoting a 15 seer. system. If they were proposing a 16 seer. or higher, which would be multi-staged, then I could see the reasoning for wanting a zone panel that's multi-staged.

[PacificJade]

Not looking for the lowest price, just trying to do my due diligence in getting the most fair, honest and reliable contractor and system.

Since the summer season is here, would it be better to wait until fall or winter to pursue this since our system still operates?

I've been reading as much as I can in order to be able to make a somewhat wise decision. I have another contractor coming out this afternoon to quote on a Trane system.

[bobboan]

Not looking for the lowest price, just trying to do my due diligence in getting the most fair, honest and reliable contractor and system.

I don't see how your reply follows my statement about zoning. I didn't mention anything regarding pricing.

[PacificJade]

Sorry, bobboan, I didn't reply to you directly. Your last reply was a statement and there wasn't any reply to that I could have made. If you read the reply before yours, motoguy128 was referring to pricing.

Sorry to be a bother.

[bobboan]

The site posted it as a reply to my comment. That's why I didn't see a connection.

I think you would be wise in getting another estimate or more. You may also want to ask the first contractor to explain how installing a new zoning panel will make the system more efficient.

[beenthere]

Best bet. Get other quotes.

One of the worst things you can do. is buy the zone package yourself and then have another contractor install it. The installer of the A/C unit/system can then blame any problems on the zoning package installer, and charge for service calls, and void his labor warranty.

[dan sw fl]

Looking to upgrade our 17 year old Goodman builder's model air and furnace.

We've only had one contractor come out so far and their pitch was for a Ruud ARI-4626879, 4 Ton, R-410a condensor, 95% achiever series, 2 stage variable speed. He listed the model #'s as RGTM09ENZAJS-UAPM048JAZ-CE60D44210. The air conditioner he quoted would be a 15 SEER. 2400 sq foot 2-story home.

We're in No. Calif. Hot inland summers. He didn't do any load calcs. Did do an air flow calc with a coned tent thing and came up with about a 1100 number.
I think he put it on our return air vent and had us turn on the 2 thermostat fans.
Said our existing unit is a 9 SEER and we're only getting 75% air flow.

Also said he'd flush the existing refrigerant tubing since we currently have the old freon, where I find you say to replace.

Is this legit or kick him to the curb?

He defined a REAL Issue with only 1100 CFM of required ~1600 CFM.

THAT's the FIRST Issue that MUST be addressed.


-------- We're in No. Calif. Hot inland summers. ----
Is that ( hor inland) a city? If not, what is it?
Solutions depend on what city you're in.

ACCA Manual J and D --
Your solution !!
You'll be here for a decade if you don't get down to some REAL Analysis.

Use of balometer to measure 1,100 CFM seemed to be a Good Start.
BUT,
without SIGNIFICANT Follow Through
Cast him to the curb.

[PacificJade]

The site posted it as a reply to my comment. That's why I didn't see a connection.

I think you would be wise in getting another estimate or more. You may also want to ask the first contractor to explain how installing a new zoning panel will make the system more efficient.

Sorry, I was a bit testy, bobboan. Did get another quote today from a Trane dealer. He was much more thorough.

Best bet. Get other quotes.

One of the worst things you can do. is buy the zone package yourself and then have another contractor install it. The installer of the A/C unit/system can then blame any problems on the zoning package installer, and charge for service calls, and void his labor warranty.

Understood. Thanks.

He defined a REAL Issue with only 1100 CFM of required ~1600 CFM.

THAT's the FIRST Issue that MUST be addressed.


-------- We're in No. Calif. Hot inland summers. ----
Is that ( hor inland) a city? If not, what is it?
Solutions depend on what city you're in.

ACCA Manual J and D --
Your solution !!
You'll be here for a decade if you don't get down to some REAL Analysis.

Use of balometer to measure 1,100 CFM seemed to be a Good Start.
BUT,
without SIGNIFICANT Follow Through
Cast him to the curb.

Thank you. Got another estimate today and he'll be doing a load calc. The 2nd quote wants to put in another return air vent in the lower level (since ours is small and only on the second floor) and change some duct work to 16" vs. 12" which makes a lot of sense. I thought we had an existing 2 stage system (from the 1st quote) but we only have a single with the zone control.

I like this contractor. He spent time explaining everything and the whys. These Trane air conditioners are much larger than our existing one and where it's at will be an absolute eyesore, but what can you do? At least we won't jump when it kicks on.

Hot summers, inland Northern California (Sacramento Valley). Can get to 115 in a hot year.



So, I thank everyone for their help. I think we're on the right path now. Just much more expensive than we thought and not a fun expenditure!