I'm a newbie who just recently found this site. Wish I had known about it before I decided on a new system for our home. I've already signed up for a new Hybrid (duel fuel) system but would like some opinions about the quality of the selected equipment. I got about 4 different estimates and felt the most trust with this company. This company is local (Ga.) and has been around for 30 years. The install will start on 7/24.
We have a 2500sf home with about 500sf upstairs. 15ft ceilings in the living and dining area and 9ft in the rest of the house. The two rooms upstairs are in an area above the garage and gets quite warm up there.
We currently have a 10 year old Rheem, an RAKA060JAZ 5ton series that is very inefficient and sounds like a battleship when it kicks on. It has been problematic and we have decided to bite the bullet and get a new system.
The Manual J lists these numbers:
3.349 Tons (based on sensible + latent)
3.879 Tons (based on 77% sensible capacity)
These numbers seem to agree with the estimate of my dealer's initial estimate of a 4ton.
Suggested Equipment specs are:
TUD100R9V5 XV80 furnace with two stage heat and variable speed indoor blower motor.
Aprilaire model 2200 hi efficiency air cleaner
RXC054S3 hi efficiency indoor coil.
4TWX4048 4ton XL 14i deluxe hi efficiency heat pump. System uses R410 refrigerant.
New Refrigeration line set.
EWC (2 zones, one up and one downstairs)Zone Control panel.
Motorized zone dampers.
Barometric bypass damper.
Hart & Cooley A-618 adjustable deflection registers.
TCONT803 VIsion Pro tstat with summertime humidity control. One thermostat upstairs and one downstairs.
They will put in new metal supply and return air plenums and run metal trunk ducts 5 to 15 feet from furnace plenum and then tie into the flex duct.
Just seeking knowledgeable opinions or suggestions about the system. It's definitely a big ticket item for us. As a HO, I've researched but just can't really know how a given system will work. I've finally just had to take a leap of faith and trust the company and staff.
Dan in GA.
Sounds to me like you made a wise choice and looks like they want to do a quality job. Show some trust in them and make sure and leave them alone while they are working. It is much appreciated.
I have had my xv80 for 2 winters - very smooth heat. I got the XL14i single stage heat pump in April. Today was 102 degrees outside, 71 indoor. Your XL16i is 2 stage. I'd say it is a better unit than Trane XL19i, but just a homeowner opinion. Let us know how you like it after install.
Sorry, I was reading too fast (saw the 410 and I started thinking of XL16i).
dan in ga
First of all, you have selected a great system and if you made zero changes should be well satisfied.
I also live in SE and have practically same system. Trane is one of the few manufacturers that have dual fuel down pat.
As you already know, Georgia has very reasonable electric rates as opposed to nat gas which is no longer a value fuel for winter heating due to supply/demand issues, energy speculators, and possible market maipulation by the integrated energy companies.
1.I would upgrade my heat pump selection to the 2 stg XL16i-this upgrade will pay for itself.
2.Unless you are just hell bent on having a backup gas furnace, I would drop it for a var speed air handler. The gas furnace is overkill and not necessary for Ga climate. Today's heat pumps have made great improvements and Trane makes the best(but are very weak with their unsophisticated controls vs Carrier Infinity line-main criticism I have with Trane). With your high eff heat pump, you will get higher SEER and HSPF ratings with var speed air handler as opposed to var speed furnace blower.
3.You mentioned the hot area above garage-a bonus room? The only way to improve this is with more insulation and/or ductwork modification to provide better airflow. Ask your dealer. I doubt your new system will help this area.
4.If you decide to stick with the 80% AFUE gas furnace, then have dealer set up your new system with the mech thermostat located inside your HP condenser that allows the homeowner to adjust the temp that he wants gas furnace and HP to operate. You are in control and I prefer this method. Very easy to do if you can use a screwdriver. I suggest you recheck your heating load for the gas furnace-your model number is for a unit that has a 5 ton blower rating with a 52/79 KBTU output. What does your heating load say? You might can use the smaller 4 ton rated model. Just an idea.
New Trane XL 14i Duel Fuel System
Thanks for the comments. I really appreciate the feedback.
Seatonheating: your comment made me think you know me. I'm going to try real hard to stay out of their way. I do believe they're going to do a quality install. I can be a real PIA!
Xv80satisfiedcust: It's great to hear from someone who has something very similar to what I'm getting.
If I may ask, did your utility bills go down any after the install of your system? I'm hoping to see some lower utility bills. I don't have any idea how much but I do hope to save a few dollars each month.
Tigerdunes: Very interesting suggestions. So interesting that I had to forward some of them to my contact at the Heating and AC company.
One thing we've already done was to add another supply line to upstairs. That really helped but we need a little more control up there (zone). You can't keep it comfortable trying to use the downstairs tstat to control it. However, this action did seem to change the dynamics of the system somewhat, i.e. warmer downstairs, longer runtimes.
I am at the end of my limit as far as how many dollars I can spend but I would love a two stage HP. I am asking my guy for a price difference but I'm sure I can't afford the XL 16i.
I did ask for comments on your questions about the adjustable screw in the HP so we can change it as needed. And the heat load questions you presented.
Sounds good have to go with a company that in writing a no pledge lemon law 30yrs they been their for a reason I trust them get it in writing.Go to McDonalds before lunch by a varity of stuff and surpise them..
New Trane XL 14i Duel Fuel System
Just wanted to send out a followup note that we've had the new system (as I initially posted it, no changes were made) up and running for about 3 weeks now and we are loving it. Also to send out another thank you for the responses to my first posts and to say that I picked up quite a bit of info here from many different posters.
The dealer rep that designed the replacement system came out yesterday for the final walkthrough and payment.
It took them just over 5 days to get everything done. I must add that I didn't mind them taking the extra time since we had mid 90's everyday during the install. The attic was hot as HE!!. And they also pretty much pulled out the flex supply lines and put in metal ductwork for all the supply lines (done under the original contract price, no effort to increase the costs). That made me very happy. The RH runs about 40% as it was doing.
I did follow the advice given about staying out of their way and provided about 70 bottles of water (3 man crew) during the install week.
the only things I asked about was fine tuning the master bedroom to allow a little less air bleed and to allow more bleed in the front area (15 foot ceilings). I thought we could just meter back the registers. He thought it would be better to handle that with a little tighter damper control. Also a little air getting out at the inside coil area where the condensate PVC pipe exits. A little more silicone would do it.
My daughter likes to keep the upstairs zone area at 77 degrees all the time and is is happy with the controls/private thermostat for her zone. We have the downstairs on a schedule that only ranges a couple of degrees, from 77 to 79 degrees. With the low humidity, we feel cooler that the temperature indicates.
Thanks to a great site,
Dan in Ga.
I still haven't received the utility bill that
included the record hot weekend up through 7/16/06.
I'll try to remember to post some winter heat utilities too
(this was the main reason I got the heat pump at all).
My unit is a 2 ton R22 and I use the adaptive recovery Vision Pro thermostat.
Before the heat wave, my utility bills for my 1200 sq ft house were
similar to my former 800 sq ft apartment with 8 seer AC and
no setback thermostat.
I'll post in kWh and therms so the numbers won't be biased by utility rates.
I'll bet you're glad to get rid of flex duct. You should have seen
the frown on one HVAC contractor's face when I
mentioned flex duct in 2004 !
I truly attribute the utility savings to the good advice from
HVAC Talk on making sure the unit is SIZED correctly with correct airflow.
New Trane XL 14i Duel Fuel System
Thanks for the reply. I'll be monitoring my kWh/therms also and we can compare usage. My HP is a 4ton so I should consume more enery than your 2ton. My meter was read on 7/14/06 and the install started on Monday, 7/24/06. It was Friday, 7/28/06 before the unit was started.
So I'll only get a partial month on my next power bill, it'll be two months out before I get a full month for comparison to the last full bill before swapping out the old system.
As far as the flex duct goes, I was really surprised that they tore it all out. The contract only called for 5 - 15 feet of metal and then tie into the flex. The installers simply took it out because they said it wouldn't work properly.
I've never had a heat pump so heating with it will be a new experience.
I see this as a class A install! I'm very happy with everything thus far.
Dan in Ga.