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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Float'N Vally, MS
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    1,841
    I have noticed that "most" of the high end scroll systems now come with a "start kit".
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,962
    Originally posted by riderman
    I was taught that a hard start kit was a bandaid for worn compressors essentially on their way out.
    You were taught wrong.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Toms River, NJ
    Posts
    425
    You need a hard start if:

    1. Hard shut off TXV

    2. Long Lineset

    3. Low ambient conditions

    4. Voltage problems


    Dave in NJ

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,324
    Originally posted by smadave
    You need a hard start if:

    1. Hard shut off TXV

    2. Long Lineset

    3. Low ambient conditions

    4. Voltage problems


    Dave in NJ
    Scrolls start with out hard start kits even against non bleed TXV's.
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  5. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    7,680
    The truth of the matter is, a start kit in most scroll applications is a bullet point or a selling feature. Its something that can be added to a spec to make the use of lower end equipment require adding to. Now, if you are going to run these obnociously long linesets, it's something you might add to a scroll, but in fairness, its not required often at all. In reality, the money would be better spent on LPS, HPS, CCH, and even Driers.

    Yes, some recips with non-bleed TXV's need start componants, but even the Benchmark Recip, has built in features that can overcome that need.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Dimas, CA
    Posts
    10

    Scroll..capacitors

    Yes, residential scroll compressors do have capacitors in which specifications are found in Copeland Electrical Handbook 2005-2006 Edition.


    [Edited by smithone on 07-23-2006 at 04:02 PM]

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    132

    start caps on nall trane and am standard compressors. scrollla nd recip

    as per mfg recommendation. all scrolls and receips should have a hard start kit installed. scrolls and receps are equiped with non equalizing txvsand a start cap is therefore recommended on both. checkvalve in compressor prevents bleeding back and balancing pressure on the scrolls.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Scroll compressors have more internal mechanical friction to overcome on startup, so the inrush current tends to be higher than the same size recip, which in a changout situation, can result in more noticeable light dimming in the house when the compressor starts. This is a common complaint in some areas.
    A start kit on a scroll compressor reduces the length of time the motor pulls LRA, which reduces the lights dimming in the house when the compressor starts.
    Some manufacturers also require a start kit for scroll compressor equipped systems that are used for low ambient cooling.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,310
    Rheem's 13 SEER units come factory with start kit. RAND/RPNE. Looking at A-S 13 SEER, only the 3 ton and 5 ton have scrolls. The 3 ton does not have a kit, the 5 ton does. We had some complaints about lights dimming with A-S scrolls in the past and the distributor would give us a free start kit in those cases.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    21,406
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Scroll compressors have more internal mechanical friction to overcome on startup, so the inrush current tends to be higher than the same size recip, which in a changout situation, can result in more noticeable light dimming in the house when the compressor starts. This is a common complaint in some areas.
    A start kit on a scroll compressor reduces the length of time the motor pulls LRA, which reduces the lights dimming in the house when the compressor starts.
    Some manufacturers also require a start kit for scroll compressor equipped systems that are used for low ambient cooling.
    Hey Mark,

    I was in a 'counter conversation' with another tech on this topic a while back. They suggested that a start kit on a scroll would increase the energy efficiency. Seemed to me that if it lowered the light dimming, it would also lower the KWH's used... Any thoughts? THX in advance!
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  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Hey Mark,

    I was in a 'counter conversation' with another tech on this topic a while back. They suggested that a start kit on a scroll would increase the energy efficiency. Seemed to me that if it lowered the light dimming, it would also lower the KWH's used... Any thoughts? THX in advance!
    Well, the start kit doesn't lower the peak LRA, but it does shorten the time the motor is at LRA, so I would have to agree that it does improve the efficiency, however slightly.

    And before someone jumps in and says that a start kit lowers the peak LRA of the motor on startup, and points to their amp meter readings, your meter doesn't have a fast enough response time to show you the true peak amperage on startup. You get a lower reading because it pulls LRA for less time, so the amperage has dropped off more before your meter displays anything.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Madison WI
    Posts
    2
    ..
    Last edited by zeetammie; 06-28-2008 at 11:41 PM. Reason: hostile site

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,324
    Do a search on screen name payson.
    He has a link to a video of the amp draw of a compressor with and without hard start kit.
    And of different start kits.
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