Calling all pro members

[waterpirate]

I would like to open up a discussion of residential and commercial geothermal in regard to:

"the business afiliation between the driller/looper and the HVAC industry"

While it is not impossible for one to exist without the other, it is more common that the HVAC industry subs out the Geo portion of a geothermal heat pump project to a partner industry proffesional in the form of a well driller or looper.

While the HVAC industry has a pile of credentials and certs that the EPA and others require the well drillers and loopers are held to a different standard that is in most cases universally accepted.

Those credentials include liscenses to perform the said work in the states in which they operate and more commonly a designer installer ticket from IGSHPA ( international ground source heat pump association).

My premise would be that you can not have one without the other. It is a marrige of the two trades in a simbiotic relationship, not one that is parasitic by either trade.

So what is the consensus of the other pro members that have had or do resi-or commercial geo. " Is the well driller/looper affiliated with the HVAC industry or not?)


Eric

[SkyHeating]

Yes they are hugely integrated into the HVAC trade, a driller needs to know what size system and how loop temperatures effect sizing and performance.

We install the geo units and the loops unless it is a vertical drill. Otherwise we always run the loops and hook up headers. The only thing we don't do is dig the ditch. When my crew does the loop I know it is sized based on my calculation and my EWT's will meet the load and designed heat rate of extraction. This is where i see my competition fail most often, they do a good job installing units but took on doing the loop instead of subbing it out and have no idea how/why a loop functions the way it does.

ERIC: You do know there is a geothermal forum in the pro's only section right?

[waterpirate]

Thanx for the reply. I was recently denied pro membership based on my unknown affiliation with the HVAC industry, so I was hopeing to garner some input from geo freindly pro members to include in my appeal to the membership committee's decision.

Anyone else feel that I am worthy?

40 odd technical posts deep, and credentials posted in the new member section +

Thanx
Eric

[texas cooler]

Not sure why you'd be denied the pro designation as I've seen your posts on the several geo forums I visit...you even answered a question I had about the best way to bring a loop into an existing slab on grade building.

We install all the piping from the wellhead to the unit and also dig the ditch.

[Nuclrchiller]

I sometimes lurk in the residential forums and in this forum. I too have seen "value content" posts from waterpirate that have helped people. If pro membership was declined due to a lack of traditional HVAC qualifications ( refrigerant card, etc...), then what he brings to the forums regarding the "ground side" of ground source heat pumps, and his willingness to share it, should more than make him "worthy" of pro membership. His posts have been more "pro" than those from some current "pro" members.

[waterpirate]

Thank you for the kind and suportive words. I believe that the membership committee truly wrestled with the conundrum that my pro status application posed.

In the end I think they took the low hanging fruit, and fell back on the statement that " although I held a supportive roll to the HVAC industry, it did not conform to the current pro membership requirements as set forth by the forum Administrator".

In my world committee's and people who are in charge of things and senior members are charged with the things that do not come easily, and should have maybe addressed this with the Administrator, but they did not.

They aknowledged my content and helpfullness and hoped I would stay and continue to contribute. I am. The sole reason for my application to the pro status was not driven by ego, but by a willingness and drive to help other pro's.

If any of you pro's observe a fellow in need in the pro section only and think that I may be able to help, just send them out into the public version of going green, or they can send me a e-mail at

Again thanx for your interest in my work to help educate the world about the dirt side of geothermal.

Eric

[Special-K]

Waterpirate,

E-mail addresses are not allowed in posts, and you do not qualify to post your website address or company info.

I have removed them from your posts, please do not continue to post them. A quick review of our site rules would be wise.

Thank you

Mod

[Stamas]

I would think that this would be a good addition for our site. I am a customer of yours I believe and refer people to you. (not overly wild about your commercials though).

[waterpirate]

Thank you for the kind and suportive words. I believe that the membership committee truly wrestled with the conundrum that my pro status application posed.

In the end I think they took the low hanging fruit, and fell back on the statement that " although I held a supportive roll to the HVAC industry, it did not conform to the current pro membership requirements as set forth by the forum Administrator".

In my world committee's and people who are in charge of things and senior members are charged with the things that do not come easily, and should have maybe addressed this with the Administrator, but they did not.

They aknowledged my content and helpfullness and hoped I would stay and continue to contribute. I am. The sole reason for my application to the pro status was not driven by ego, but by a willingness and drive to help other pro's.

If any of you pro's observe a fellow in need in the pro section only and think that I may be able to help, just send them out into the public version of going green, or they can send me a e-mail at

Again thanx for your interest in my work to help educate the world about the dirt side of geothermal.

Eric

UhOH!

I got pulled over by the police, again.
Seriously if you would like my input or assistance or just a healthy dose of Geo-Snark my personal contact info is in my public profile. As a guest I can not respond to pm's or edit my posts.
Eric

[ultra classic se]

Ialso agree with stamas on this one.

[waterpirate]

Hey Jeff,
Thanx for your support and goood to see you here!
Eric

[CallaDrilling]

I got the same generic decline letter as Waterpirate.
Although I do not claim to be a HVAC professional, but my geothermal drilling, and loopfield knowledge is not needed here in the eyes of the membership committee.
I am just a "well driller who does GSHP piping."

[Bergy]

Loopers ARE in a partnership with HVAC contractors. We do all the design work with our computer programs but that cannot tell us what is actually out at the job site. Our loopers know the geology of the area and can let us know when more pipe is needed to achieve the required results.

Bergy

[waterpirate]

This site had a volatile past from what I understand. Tightening up the rules and so forth was to keep the site valid and usefull. Add to that the concept of " the first rule of pro status is to not talk about pro status" and you got yourself a slippery slope.

I rattled the cage pretty good and bucked my application up the chain.

Eric

[dandyme]

calling the powers to be out in a public forum never has a happy ending

[waterpirate]

Where do you think that that you should address the " powers "?
In a poorly lit room behind some beer garden?

Freedom of speach, even on a privately owned and operated board should be encouraged as long as it falls within the owners framework of rules and codes of conduct.

Eric

[CallaDrilling]

Thanks for the Help guys. I am not going to beg and plead my case to gain access into a "secret society"! I sent in my crude trials, voiced my opinion that loop contractors are very much needed in the "go green geothermal" forums. With that being said my reply back was "Your just a well driller who does GSHP piping"! My point exactly!!!! With out
People like me there would be NO GSHP's!!!!! Somebody has to do the piping.
This will be the end of my quest to considered a "PRO" in this forum. I would like to add that I will still be available in the open forums if anybody has any "GSHP piping question from just a driller".
-Dan