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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    690
    Originally posted by mrbillpro
    Originally posted by hvac hero

    I'm a contractor & I just dont have time to go spend about 2 hours doing a load calc on every residential estimate.
    Amen! and all that just for them to get a lowballer to do the job.
    Yup it`s the customers fault they want free estimates call 7 different companies wasting everyones time and then end up going with the lowest bid anyway.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,395
    I notice you mentioned Sears. If you are still considering them do yourself a favor and research them on this site. There is some interesting reading about their quality and customer service attitudes.

    Goodluck with your new system.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    628
    A wide variety of people are in the HVAC industry, and not all the good guys do everything the same way.

    Pretty much NONE of the consumers I have talked to after learning what Manual J was, want a correctly sized AC, they want oversized enough to get rapid cool down. Could be a Manual J and correct sizing leads to too many callbacks.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Derby City
    Posts
    3,964
    buzz427: because there are too many lazy as_es in our industry that don't want to put the effort and time into doing it right! that's why. should it be done? absolutely.
    Everyone has a purpose in life..........even if it's to be a bad example.

    Seek first to understand, before seeking to be understood.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,068
    Originally posted by John Lloyd
    buzz427: because there are too many lazy as_es in our industry that don't want to put the effort and time into doing it right! that's why. should it be done? absolutely.

    "OR" maybe some of us are up to our arses in work and we don't have time we had 23 service calls today one man out sick, so me and two other guys killed ourselves today to just try and get caught up which we didn't yet, just because we don't have the time and manpower to go perform A free manual J "Dam" sure don't mean were lazy, I personally think that statement was uncalled for, maybe your company is twittling there thumbs and like a wrecker waiting on a wreck for someone that needs a "FREE" manual J and you can run out there and do one, I know this is the right thing to do for the record we just don't have the time so I guess if that makes us lazy well Hell were a bunch of lazy arses.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,323

    NICE Decision on Lennox 2-stage

    Originally posted by kvr
    I am having 'some' degree of buyers remorse at the moment. I had a new AC system installed in my Las Vegas home.

    I ended up committing to a two-stage Lennox 19 SEER condenser and variable speed furnace/blower. My home is 1,165 Sq.Ft., and single level. The guy quoted me a 3 ton system, which may be oversized a bit. Still trying to get consensus on that question.

    I was shocked to see the actual unit delivered....looked like it was large enough in physical size to cool a hotel!! It was a 3 ton though, as I verified it on the labels. Hope I made the right call, or do I have some legal recourse if I can prove the contractor was negligent in installing too large a tonnage system for my place??

    ... IS a big purchase decision. Good luck! -Ken
    2-stage will be fine and 3-ton NOT Too big when the
    100's days are frequent and
    increasingly more than in past years.

    Also, your electric bill may be a
    little more
    pleasant looking in spite of rate increases.



    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    2,502
    Originally posted by John Lloyd
    buzz427: because there are too many lazy as_es in our industry that don't want to put the effort and time into doing it right! that's why. should it be done? absolutely.
    yeah it should be done, but it doesnt necessarily have to be done just for a estimate. I can guarantee ya I'm not lazy & neither are the other guys here that say they dont do it for every estimate. I'm more than happy to do it & adjust my bid accordingly after a commitment. Kinda funny hearing someone call us lazy in the middle of the summer when most of us are working 50 to 60 hours a week in the heat. yeah real lazy.
    Life is like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    2,502
    Originally posted by mrbillpro
    Originally posted by John Lloyd
    buzz427: because there are too many lazy as_es in our industry that don't want to put the effort and time into doing it right! that's why. should it be done? absolutely.

    "OR" maybe some of us are up to our arses in work and we don't have time we had 23 service calls today one man out sick, so me and two other guys killed ourselves today to just try and get caught up which we didn't yet, just because we don't have the time and manpower to go perform A free manual J "Dam" sure don't mean were lazy, I personally think that statement was uncalled for, maybe your company is twittling there thumbs and like a wrecker waiting on a wreck for someone that needs a "FREE" manual J and you can run out there and do one, I know this is the right thing to do for the record we just don't have the time so I guess if that makes us lazy well Hell were a bunch of lazy arses.

    I hear ya Billpro. When I saw that word "lazy" i immediately replied before I read the other responses. After going back & seeing yours, I see we said basically the same thing. Right on man.
    Life is like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8
    Link at the top of the page.

    Download the software pay the $$ for it and find out what it says you should use. Just my opinion based on what I have seen at this site so far. I'm pretty sure the next time I shop for a unit I will pay for a liscense for the HVAC calc and find out for myself.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    8
    well, guys its great to hear from the contractors point of view. i can understand the fact that u wouldnt want to do the legwork just so that work get transfered down to the lowest bidder on the job. Also the fact of not wanting to spend the time at Every estamate doing a load test. However, As a costomer tho, i would have absolutely no problem paying for the contractors time to have load test done. No problems at all. Large investment going into a project like that and to me, a few extra hundred dollars at the beginning of a job where sizing is one of the most important functions is so worth the money its a no brainer.

    Now its not like im looking for something free if they told me that we need to perform a 2-3 hour loadtest on your house to find your needs etc etc then i would have NO arguments on that..

    Id prolly use that contractor over all others (Price can not be the only determining factor) as to me it would seem as if he was more competent than the rest and Knew what he was talking aobut. Lol im sick of hearing the gimmicks

    just the point of view of a customer that cant find the right contractor




  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,068
    Originally posted by buzz427

    just the point of view of a customer that cant find the right contractor
    buzz that is a great! point of view also but we don't run across a lot of customers like you or have the prospective you do about their job, I hope you find a very qualified contractor and someone you can trust and will do you a good job, because customers like you deserve the best, thanks for you honest feedback.
    Mr. Bill
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    628
    I think I am going to put in a claim for a neck injury, I read these 'manual j' threads and just shake my head. Given the multistage cooling and special dehumidification modes, getting the "correct" size system on paper doesn't seem to have a lot of real value. Its pure CYA.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    2,502
    Originally posted by buzz427
    well, guys its great to hear from the contractors point of view. i can understand the fact that u wouldnt want to do the legwork just so that work get transfered down to the lowest bidder on the job. Also the fact of not wanting to spend the time at Every estamate doing a load test. However, As a costomer tho, i would have absolutely no problem paying for the contractors time to have load test done. No problems at all. Large investment going into a project like that and to me, a few extra hundred dollars at the beginning of a job where sizing is one of the most important functions is so worth the money its a no brainer.

    Now its not like im looking for something free if they told me that we need to perform a 2-3 hour loadtest on your house to find your needs etc etc then i would have NO arguments on that..

    Id prolly use that contractor over all others (Price can not be the only determining factor) as to me it would seem as if he was more competent than the rest and Knew what he was talking aobut. Lol im sick of hearing the gimmicks

    just the point of view of a customer that cant find the right contractor



    Buzz, if I had someone call & ask for me to come do a load calc because they are wanting to use it for a starting point on getting estimates and they had your attitude & were willing to pay. I would be more than willing to give them a load calc & be just as thorough as possible. I would collect my fee & give em my best sales pitch on what equipment I thought would benefit them. And then, they would be free to use my load calc & shop prices as much as they want. It wouldnt bother me a bit.

    I hope you can have better luck this next week trying to find a good contractor that will help you.
    Life is like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow.

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