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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21

    Banquet Room Sizing

    Ok this is my first "commercial" job its new construction. One of those friends that we all have when they need a job done called me today...
    He is adding a new addition to his restaurant its approximately 3000sq ft 9ft ceilings average insulation wide open floor plan going to be used as a banquet space that will hold approximately 150-200 people which is probably over shooting the capacity. Im going to look at the building tomorrow and see if im up to doing the job. He is a cheap skate which is probably why he called me to hopefully get a "good deal". Basically based on the info above can any of you give me some tips on sizing this space before i go check it out. He wants a split system seems like my rough calculations are coming up somewhere within 60k and 70k btu's I maybe way off on this but thats why im here to see what someone more seasoned has to say about it. I just need some rough idea so i can give him a price range to expect.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central Pennsylvania
    Posts
    15
    Seems close without actually doing any math. One thing i would recomend is staging or some type of load control. Spaces like this are always problematic if the unit isnt sized right. You need enough capacity to cool the space when its loaded with people but you dont want to bang on and off when theyre only using it for small groups. You may be better off going with 2 splits one on each side with there own stats if you wanna stay cheap. Ive seen that quite often in spaces like this. Lots of chapels and santuarys are done that way.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21
    thats what i was thinking 2 splits on each end of the building 2 3 ton units any idea of heating btu's i was think 100k total out btu so 2 60k 95% furnaces???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dry as a bone Tucson
    Posts
    4,296

    3700 sq ft

    I did a banquet meeting room last year that had 3700 sq ft with 9' ceilings. The PE had put 4- 5 ton package heat pumps on with a total of 2000 cfm of outside air.

    Some Talk, Some Do
    "keeping condensing pressures low and evaporator pressures high"
    "Some customers are more interested in comfort than energy savings"
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21
    What was your total occupancy ??

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dry as a bone Tucson
    Posts
    4,296
    Quote Originally Posted by bcrum51 View Post
    What was your total occupancy ??
    Sorry, but I can't find that info.
    Some Talk, Some Do
    "keeping condensing pressures low and evaporator pressures high"
    "Some customers are more interested in comfort than energy savings"
    Blog
    Web
    Facebook


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21
    thanks anyway appreciate the help still on the fence about even doing it

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by bcrum51 View Post
    thanks anyway appreciate the help still on the fence about even doing it
    well the Rule of thumb method is taboo around here But, 2 to 2.5 cfm per sqft. and would lean towards the 2.5

    and yes you will need OA. 9' ceilings is not that high when you have most people standing and dancing.

    If you don't move the air, people will get hot. If this guy is cheap he better hang on, and don't forget the smoke duct detectors. He will need a permit and drawings. I wouldn't waste to much time with out bidding the drawings. but if you give a quote make sure your happy with it. Any owner builder i work with will hound you if there are any surprises. But ACFIXR has a good drawing there.

    RTUs my be his best bet, save cost on piping and electrical. use plenum return.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by dlove View Post
    well the Rule of thumb method is taboo around here But, 2 to 2.5 cfm per sqft. and would lean towards the 2.5

    and yes you will need OA. 9' ceilings is not that high when you have most people standing and dancing.

    If you don't move the air, people will get hot. If this guy is cheap he better hang on, and don't forget the smoke duct detectors. He will need a permit and drawings. I wouldn't waste to much time. But ACFIXR has a good drawing there.

    RTUs my be his best bet, save cost on piping and electrical. use plenum return.
    I think you hit it right on the head

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    44
    Around here, that would have to be engineered and stamped to even get a permit. With that occopancy load, you will need a lot of fresh air. Then the correct amount of heat/cooling to overcome the fresh air load alone. Air change and cooling will be the major factors. I would drop it off to an engineer before I even considered giving a price.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    282
    i think you need 10 tons, 1 ton per 20 people,200 people 10 tons

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    352
    I attached a rule of thumb check: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1098071&page=2

    Restaurants:
    Cooling: 48 BTUH/SF
    Heating: 3.0 BTUH/SF

    Every person will need:

    15 CFM of Outside Air
    280 BTUH Sensible Heat Emitted
    270 BTUH Latent Heat Emitted

    Just people alone you are looking at 9.5 tons without taking into account your building construction.

    I would use Manual J or do a quick load calc.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    East coast USA
    Posts
    962
    Quote Originally Posted by hcong View Post
    I attached a rule of thumb check: http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1098071&page=2

    Restaurants:
    Cooling: 48 BTUH/SF
    Heating: 3.0 BTUH/SF

    Every person will need:

    15 CFM of Outside Air
    280 BTUH Sensible Heat Emitted
    270 BTUH Latent Heat Emitted

    Just people alone you are looking at 9.5 tons without taking into account your building construction.

    I would use Manual J or do a quick load calc.
    that's about 1.3 cfm per sqft. and it may work. My feeling is your on the boarder line. and when your paying big bucks to host an event. i don't want to hear "Captain the AC is doing all it can" when im hot. :gah

    but taken into account you didn't included the structure so the rest remains to be seen. I built out many conference rooms and 2 cfm per sqft is what has been consistent and has worked for me.. because this is a new add on and not existing, If this owner is smart he should have the architect and ME, design a cost saving structure. otherwise your spinning your wheels

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